Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
- shakyhands
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Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
My bellows repair is really more of a bellows rebuild, so I wanted to start a fresh thread.
I’ve so far salvaged the clappers (not yet sanded and cleaned) and will build everything else around them.
Besides David Daye’s video, Ive also gathered some good info from this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmkoMfzFH_o
The gusset:
On a different thread on here, I saw Geoff Wooff makes the leather gusset for his bellows from two pieces of leather, bonded together with contact cement (i.e., liquid neoprene or Barge cement), and coated on the internal side with melted (but not scalding) beeswax-olive oil mixture prior to attachment to the clappers. This seems pretty straightforward, so I am planning on going this route (unless there is a compelling case for an easier method.)
1) My first question is, what would be an appropriate thickness/grade of leather for using this "double ply" method? (I otherwise know I need chrome tanned leather)
2) Next, is leather glue, such as Tandy’s, the preferred adhesive for gluing the gusset to the clappers? Or should I use contact cement for this part too?
3) I’m also curious, does anyone use clamps to hold the leather to the clappers while the glue dries? It seems this would be helpful especially on the convex portions of the clappers
4) Also, if upholstery nails are used, Would I be correct to assume these should be nailed in as quickly as possible, before the glue dries?
5) Lastly, it looks like the default design for gussets that I've seen on several bellows includes overlapping of the leather at the hinge end of the clappers. Is this still the preferred method?
I’m planning on adding the elbow pad separate, so am not worried about overlapping the elbow pad leather with the gusset leather as I’ve seen on other bellows.
Thinking ahead a bit, what grade/weight/thickness of leather is used for the "hinge" and belts? (advice/info on metal hinges also welcome). If anyone can tell me what that fancy lace that looks like bra straps and is often used to cover the gusset/clapper seams, I'd appreciate that too.
The outlet pipe:
I haven’t really looked into the design of the “outlet pipe” (as referred to in the video above), but from the video, it looks like a short shaft of copper tube is affixed to the 45 degree angle hole in the clapper, with no further modification (besides a 45 degree angle cut to align flush the inside of the clapper). I would like to avoid the bare copper tube. For example, my Gallagher bellows uses a female brass fitting, with the matching male brass fitting attached to the blowpipe. So it looks very elegant when connected (pictures: https://imgur.com/a/F7OqEuv). The regular hardware store doesn’t have anything like this, though the pieces look more or less like standard plumbing hardware.
As far as affixing the outlet pipe to the clapper, is there something I can do to improve the seal besides just gluing bare tubing to the hole in the clapper? I imagine I could use a flange on the “inner” (internal to the bellows) end of the fitting, but also imagine this would require the extra step of soldering, which I would like to avoid as it would entail new tools and materials etc. I know one end of copper tubing could be wallowed out into a funnel shape, but I’m not sure something like this would work for brass. I'd definitely appreciate any guidance with these matters, including where to find the brass fittings, too.
Many thanks to anyone who can answer any of these questions! Feel free to add any other points of advice about stuff I have overlooked.
Cheers
I’ve so far salvaged the clappers (not yet sanded and cleaned) and will build everything else around them.
Besides David Daye’s video, Ive also gathered some good info from this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmkoMfzFH_o
The gusset:
On a different thread on here, I saw Geoff Wooff makes the leather gusset for his bellows from two pieces of leather, bonded together with contact cement (i.e., liquid neoprene or Barge cement), and coated on the internal side with melted (but not scalding) beeswax-olive oil mixture prior to attachment to the clappers. This seems pretty straightforward, so I am planning on going this route (unless there is a compelling case for an easier method.)
1) My first question is, what would be an appropriate thickness/grade of leather for using this "double ply" method? (I otherwise know I need chrome tanned leather)
2) Next, is leather glue, such as Tandy’s, the preferred adhesive for gluing the gusset to the clappers? Or should I use contact cement for this part too?
3) I’m also curious, does anyone use clamps to hold the leather to the clappers while the glue dries? It seems this would be helpful especially on the convex portions of the clappers
4) Also, if upholstery nails are used, Would I be correct to assume these should be nailed in as quickly as possible, before the glue dries?
5) Lastly, it looks like the default design for gussets that I've seen on several bellows includes overlapping of the leather at the hinge end of the clappers. Is this still the preferred method?
I’m planning on adding the elbow pad separate, so am not worried about overlapping the elbow pad leather with the gusset leather as I’ve seen on other bellows.
Thinking ahead a bit, what grade/weight/thickness of leather is used for the "hinge" and belts? (advice/info on metal hinges also welcome). If anyone can tell me what that fancy lace that looks like bra straps and is often used to cover the gusset/clapper seams, I'd appreciate that too.
The outlet pipe:
I haven’t really looked into the design of the “outlet pipe” (as referred to in the video above), but from the video, it looks like a short shaft of copper tube is affixed to the 45 degree angle hole in the clapper, with no further modification (besides a 45 degree angle cut to align flush the inside of the clapper). I would like to avoid the bare copper tube. For example, my Gallagher bellows uses a female brass fitting, with the matching male brass fitting attached to the blowpipe. So it looks very elegant when connected (pictures: https://imgur.com/a/F7OqEuv). The regular hardware store doesn’t have anything like this, though the pieces look more or less like standard plumbing hardware.
As far as affixing the outlet pipe to the clapper, is there something I can do to improve the seal besides just gluing bare tubing to the hole in the clapper? I imagine I could use a flange on the “inner” (internal to the bellows) end of the fitting, but also imagine this would require the extra step of soldering, which I would like to avoid as it would entail new tools and materials etc. I know one end of copper tubing could be wallowed out into a funnel shape, but I’m not sure something like this would work for brass. I'd definitely appreciate any guidance with these matters, including where to find the brass fittings, too.
Many thanks to anyone who can answer any of these questions! Feel free to add any other points of advice about stuff I have overlooked.
Cheers
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
I use airtight chrome tanned cowhide . thickness 1.2 to 1.4mm.
Suck the hide on the smooth side to check airtightness.
I use liquid neoprene cement to glue two pieces , hairy side to hairy side.
Make the lap joint by skiving away the chrome finish over the joint area to allow the glue to penetrate into the leather.
If you are going to glue the gusset to the boards then do not use any greasy coating on the inside of the leather. With the two layers carefully glued together there should be no need for any additional sealant.
I do not glue my gussets to the boards as this would entail scuffing up or skiving off the inside surface where the gusset glue would sit. I just fix the gusset to the boards with Hand Shoe Tacks , currently almost unobtainium... so if any one knows of a supplier of these I would be interested....
Suck the hide on the smooth side to check airtightness.
I use liquid neoprene cement to glue two pieces , hairy side to hairy side.
Make the lap joint by skiving away the chrome finish over the joint area to allow the glue to penetrate into the leather.
If you are going to glue the gusset to the boards then do not use any greasy coating on the inside of the leather. With the two layers carefully glued together there should be no need for any additional sealant.
I do not glue my gussets to the boards as this would entail scuffing up or skiving off the inside surface where the gusset glue would sit. I just fix the gusset to the boards with Hand Shoe Tacks , currently almost unobtainium... so if any one knows of a supplier of these I would be interested....
- an seanduine
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Geoff, not at all sure if this is what you want: https://www.carreducker.com/shop/shoe-m ... ails-20mm/
Bob
Bob
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Bob,
thanks for the suggestion and link but they are the 'cone head' type and are, I think, used for very hard leather where the cone head is hammered in flush but for the bellows I search for the flat head version which causes more downward pressure on the welt, squeezing the gusset tight against the boards.
I prefer the 'cut tack', as opposed to the square shank, because it is easier to stab it into position. the square shank needs to be held in position whilst striking with the hammer and one's fingers get whacked now and again.
So, a quick search for 'Hand Shoe Tacks ' on line finds several people selling on Ebay.
thanks for the suggestion and link but they are the 'cone head' type and are, I think, used for very hard leather where the cone head is hammered in flush but for the bellows I search for the flat head version which causes more downward pressure on the welt, squeezing the gusset tight against the boards.
I prefer the 'cut tack', as opposed to the square shank, because it is easier to stab it into position. the square shank needs to be held in position whilst striking with the hammer and one's fingers get whacked now and again.
So, a quick search for 'Hand Shoe Tacks ' on line finds several people selling on Ebay.
- rorybbellows
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
An air powered staple gun would do a great job.
RORY
RORY
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- Mr.Gumby
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Been watching the Young Offenders movie, have you?An air powered staple gun would do a great job.
My brain hurts
- Steve Bliven
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
I wonder what percentage of this planet would understand that sentence (present company excepted, of course).geoff wooff wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:22 am ... I search for the flat head version which causes more downward pressure on the welt, squeezing the gusset tight against the boards.
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
- shakyhands
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Thanks for the explanation, Mr. Wooff. I think I'll give it a go with that method. I'll just need to practice my cobblering skills on some scraps in the meantime.
I'm still also looking for solid but not overly complicated "outlet pipe" construction, if anyone has advice on that. Plain copper tubing and epoxy?
I'm still also looking for solid but not overly complicated "outlet pipe" construction, if anyone has advice on that. Plain copper tubing and epoxy?
- Steve Bliven
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
On my Hamish Moore bellows, it's a copper tube soldered onto a plate that screws into the board. The tube extends through the plate and is even with the inner side of the board for additional stability.shakyhands wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:21 pm I'm still also looking for solid but not overly complicated "outlet pipe" construction, if anyone has advice on that. Plain copper tubing and epoxy?
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
- an seanduine
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Plain copper tubing and epoxy may be your best bet if you have ´ordinary shop tools and shop skills´. Inlet the hole in the paddle at 45 deg and put a small collar on the inside end of the copper for ´grip´. Carefully coping the hole, sliding the collared tube into place from the inner side, and neatly epoxying on the inside should give a presentable result. I spent an apprenticeship in a Copper Fabrication Shop so I simply silver-brazed up a fitting when I made mine.
Bob
Bob
Not everything you can count, counts. And not everything that counts, can be counted
The Expert's Mind has few possibilities.
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Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi
The Expert's Mind has few possibilities.
The Beginner's mind has endless possibilities.
Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi
- rorybbellows
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Another option would be to glue a piece of wood to the outside of the bellows and drill a 45degree hole through the wood and insert the connection tube directly into the hole.
RORY
RORY
I'm Spartacus .
- shakyhands
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Hey Rory, bellows is in your name so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by your sense of resourcefulness on the matter
Steve, that is definitely slick bellows design
Thanks for the advice Bob, I can picture exactly what you are saying and will try something like that
Thanks, everyone
Steve, that is definitely slick bellows design
Thanks for the advice Bob, I can picture exactly what you are saying and will try something like that
Thanks, everyone
- rorybbellows
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
No no no you misunderstand, my suggestion is the only way. Forget all those other crappy ideas, they are rubbish. Unless you follow my instructions you will crash and burn. Have a nice day
RORY
RORY
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- Steve Bliven
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
Rory has clearly been carefully following US politics...
Best wishes.
Steve
Best wishes.
Steve
Live your life so that, if it was a book, Florida would ban it.
- rorybbellows
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Re: Building bellows questions: leather gusset and outlet pipe
US politicians are the best in the world and so I live my life according to their teachings. Between them and krusty the clown I've learned to live my best life.
RORY
RORY
I'm Spartacus .