Newbie questions.

[Jerry Cargill]

Beginner questions:

Hello, I’m about to begin my journey in piping. I have a couple of very basic questions. I’ve done a lot of reading on UPs over the last few months. The more I learn, the more I love this instrument. But I’m a bit unclear about a couple of things. Should I be more concerned about buying the chanter, and, and how concerned should I be about the reed? I understand that a chanter’s ability to play all of its notes is very dependent on the reed. I also get that the engineering of the chanter, boring, hole size and placement, etc. are included in that calculation. And on top of that, the relative humidity and elevation of the piper playing the chanter has a dramatic effect on the difficulty of tuning the chanter, which I understand to mean: adjusting the reed. So, being that I live in the US, in Chicago, how important is it that I buy a set, or a chanter that is US made, or made by someone in my region? If I buy from a maker in Ireland, will that make tuning especially difficult? What if I buy a set from a maker in Ireland and fit it with a reed from someone in the US, or from the closest pipe-maker? You might get the picture that I’m looking at putting a reed in a chanter like putting a light bulb in a socket, which might not be a proper analogy.

Okay, if you’re still with me, a bonus question if you don’t mind. Is there anything wrong with starting with a half-set? Can’t a beginner just shut off the drones until they’re ready? I just would like to buy a set that has a chanter and reed that I can get used to, so that I can get the regs in several years on it as I progress.

I’ve found a good candidate for a teacher, in Detroit. Will just have to Zoom it for starters. He’s suggested that I get to know the music first, by taking up a soprano D whistle. Been at it a couple of months and I’m really having fun at it. I think it was a good idea, getting to know the music, and ornamentations. Anyhow, it will keep me busy because I know the search for a good set will take time, and it will take some months to build the set once I’ve found the right maker. That's where I am right now, doing my homework and having fun with the whistle.

Thanks,

[PJ]

Should I be more concerned about buying the chanter ...

Get a good chanter from a reputable pipe maker. Avoid eBay at all costs. Be suspicious of "great deals".

... and how concerned should I be about the reed?

The reed is like the engine. The chanter is like the rest of the car. You want a good reed, and you need to take care of it. No sudden changes in temperature or humidity, for example. Also, if you are any way manual, you should consider learning to make your own reeds. It's not easy but in the long term, you'll suffer many fewer mental breakdowns.

So, being that I live in the US, in Chicago, how important is it that I buy a set, or a chanter that is US made, or made by someone in my region? If I buy from a maker in Ireland, will that make tuning especially difficult? What if I buy a set from a maker in Ireland and fit it with a reed from someone in the US, or from the closest pipe-maker? You might get the picture that I’m looking at putting a reed in a chanter like putting a light bulb in a socket, which might not be a proper analogy.

Buying from a nearby pipemaker is a good idea, but not because tuning changes from region to region. If you have problems with your pipes, having the maker nearby makes it easier to resolve the problems. Also, sending pipes or reeds long distances by mail may damage them (6 hours in the hold of a plane crossing the Atlantic at sub-zero temperatures could damage the reeds, and even the wood).

Many chanters in D are based on Leo Rowsome's designs. So the reeds, while not exactly interchangeable, are not impossible to make or adjust. A good reed maker will be able to fix you up with a reed, even if the chanter comes from the other side of the world.

Is there anything wrong with starting with a half-set? Can’t a beginner just shut off the drones until they’re ready? I just would like to buy a set that has a chanter and reed that I can get used to, so that I can get the regs in several years on it as I progress.

Nothing wrong with starting with a half set, provided that you can affoard a good half set. Your priority should be getting a good chanter. If you have the extra cash to buy drones at the same time, go for it. But if you buy a cheap chanter, so that you can also get drones, there's a chance you'll end up regretting it.

Good luck. Enjoy the journey.

[dyersituations]

Like PJ mentioned, make sure to get an instrument made by a reputable maker. In my experience, where in the world it's made doesn't make a difference (USA vs Ireland), as long as it's a good maker (not the sets made in Pakistan). I've never had a reed arrive across seas and play super well locally. You'll want to find someone near you, ideally someone you can drive to. The teacher you found probably has leads on reed makers. Whether you get drones is up to your wallet. When I was starting I was recommended to get drones early so I got used to them early (even just holding them), but ultimately I don't think it mattered too much in retrospect.

Here's what I did for my first set: found a decent Dixon practice set on Ebay, then took it to a maker who happens to live 30 mins from me, and I got a couple reeds made for it. From there I bought other sets and started learning how to make + tweak reeds. Reeds can be plug and play, but each chanter has its own characteristics. If you know how to tweak reeds, it can be relatively easy to get one working between chanters, but sometimes it just doesn't work out. Once you get used to it, you can make a decent enough reed in ~1-3 hours depending on how fast you get.

[Flotineer]

Chicago used to have a piping club. Have you talked to any locals?

[Jerry Cargill]

Chicago used to have a piping club. Have you talked to any locals?

There is one. Sort of. There's a page on FB, but not a lot of posts in the last few years. I contacted the person who runs the page about lessons. He said he's taking a break from teaching, and I did not hear back after I asked him if he could refer me to someone else who is currently teaching. But fortunately we have an Irish music school here. I contacted them and they were glad to refer me to the gentleman in Detroit.

I own a couple of books about the Irish diaspora in Chicago. There is a long history of uilleann pipe players in Chicago, but it's a small number at this point. There's not a lot of immigration of Irish to the US these days. It's because of my experiences in Ireland, watching lots of session music, that got me interested in Irish music. Also, I saw a solo show of a uilleann piper at the Irish Heritage Center, about ten years ago, which made a big impression on me.

I know there are pipers in the Chicago area, I just have not met them yet. I think that Covid has made sessions few and far between, and so right now it's just rather difficult to connect with local players.

[pancelticpiper]

Should I be more concerned about buying the chanter, and, and how concerned should I be about the reed?

...the relative humidity and elevation of the piper playing the chanter has a dramatic effect...

How important is it that I buy a chanter that is made by someone in my region?

I'm not in Chicago, I'm in Southern California, so I can only speak to the situation here.

I've been playing and getting newbies started on the uilleann pipes here for over 40 years, and what I tell people is "buy the reed, not the chanter".

Because the best chanter in the world, if it's not well-reeded, is simply a very expensive bit of woodcarving.

I feel it's essential to find a local reedmaker, one who is able and willing to supply reeds, and purchase whatever chanter their reed design was developed to play in.

That's the thing with uilleann pipes: you can have several pipers in a circle, all their chanters right in tune with each other, but if you start swapping reeds you will probably find that not a single reed plays true in any of the other chanters. Indeed a friend has three chanters from the same maker between which a reed can successfully be swapped, but when I purchased a chanter from that same maker none of my friend's reeds would play in my chanter.

We have here in Southern California a great reedmaker who has spent countless hours developing a reed design for a specific model of chanter a California pipemaker makes. The chanters are amazingly consistent and the reedmaker's reeds work beautifully in them. So I tell people here to buy that chanter.

If I buy from a maker in Ireland, will that make tuning especially difficult?

At least in my local climate, and in my personal experience, reeds from Ireland have a poor track-record. I've experienced, and seen others experience, a chanter reed instantly and permanently dying when played for the first time in our weather. (Yesterday the humidity was 7%)

What if I buy a set from a maker in Ireland and fit it with a reed from someone in the US, or from the closest pipe-maker?

That depends on whether your local reedmaker can make the design of reed that particular Irish-made chanter requires. I think it's better to get the chanter that you know can be successfully reeded by your local reedmaker, rather than to get a chanter that may or may not be reedable in your locality.

In any case you probably do have experienced uilleann pipers in your area who will be able to get you started off on the right foot. They're the ones to get advice from, not people like me on the West Coast, or people in Ireland or Europe. We're thousands of miles away and live in radically different climates than you do.

[Jerry Cargill]

Should I be more concerned about buying the chanter ...

Get a good chanter from a reputable pipe maker. Avoid eBay at all costs. Be suspicious of "great deals".

I have done enough research on the topic to know that I should steer away from the Pakistani pipes. Some things that made impressions on me were articles and posts I found outlining how people made Pakistani pipes work by retooling just about every aspect of the chanter. Made me wonder if it wouldn't be less trouble just to start fresh turning a brand new block of wood. Also there is a guy on youtube, who plays all kinds of pipes, in this video he unboxes a set of Pakistani GHBs and after much taping and tweaking and getting used to a very stiff bag, literally throws down the pipes in frustration. Point taken.

Sounds like I need to buy from someone in my region with a good reputation. But say I were to move to or retire in a new climate, I'd need a new reed almost certainly, from the nearest reed-maker.

[PJ]

You’re probably going to need a new reed every few years.

[Delsman]

Hi there I’ve been playing the pipes for about 8 months now. I’ve owned them for a while, but really started playing about 8 months ago once I left the city and moved to the burbs in a house where I can play when ever I want

I’m in the suburbs of Chicago. Our weather here is wonderful fun for playing the pipes! I would make sure you have a humidifier on hand for keeping it at proper humidity.

I have two chanters one from Dirk Mewes, who is in Colorado, and also made my practice set.And one from Richard Patkós from Hungary. Both play wonderfully- but the humidity is an issue for the reeds here for me. I still need to figure out how to adjust reeds properly.

[Jerry Cargill]

Thank you for your experience and expertise. About the reeds, and I realize I may be igniting a fire here, but with all of the difficulty that the reeds could potentially cause, it makes me wonder if a reed made from plastic or some kind of artificial material would be better for resisting alternating humidity conditions and extreme dryness. I saw a video on youtube with a guy playing with what he said was a plastic reed in his chanter. My inexperienced ears could not hear that much of a difference. But one of the commenters said it "sounded plastic". Why not some more research and development on climate-resistant reeds?

[dyersituations]

Thank you for your experience and expertise. About the reeds, and I realize I may be igniting a fire here, but with all of the difficulty that the reeds could potentially cause, it makes me wonder if a reed made from plastic or some kind of artificial material would be better for resisting alternating humidity conditions and extreme dryness. I saw a video on youtube with a guy playing with what he said was a plastic reed in his chanter. My inexperienced ears could not hear that much of a difference. But one of the commenters said it "sounded plastic". Why not some more research and development on climate-resistant reeds?

There have indeed been experiments with synthetic chanter reeds, but as far as I've read, none have really caught on. I just pulled up demo on YT by Tom Kannmacher with a plastic reed, if that's the one you're referring to, and it doesn't sound bad. But I do agree with comments that the sound isn't quite as nice as a cane/wood reed. That being said, if I was new at piping, I likely wouldn't have noticed a difference. While plastic chanter reeds aren't common, it is quite common to have synthetic regulator reeds.

The alternative that you see more of is wood reeds, such as spruce. I personally haven't tried one yet, but I've read that they are less affected by the environment than cane. There's some spruce scraps currently sitting on my worktable ready to be made into reeds...

[PJ]

... it makes me wonder if a reed made from plastic or some kind of artificial material would be better for resisting alternating humidity conditions and extreme dryness. I saw a video on youtube with a guy playing with what he said was a plastic reed in his chanter. My inexperienced ears could not hear that much of a difference. But one of the commenters said it "sounded plastic". Why not some more research and development on climate-resistant reeds?

Good results have been achieved with synthetic drone and regulator reeds, but so far, a synthetic chanter reed remains elusive.

That said, traditionally, reeds have been made with various types of cane (arundo donax, being the most common), but in recent years (thanks in large part to Benedict Koehler), progress has been made with reeds made of different types of wood. Of those, spruce is a good option, particularly in climates, like parts of North America, where there is a wide swing in temperature and humidity. More and more reed makers are offering spruce chanter reeds. The spruce in question is usually off-cuts from the making or scrapping of guitars, violins or pianos. Spruce is more resistant to humidity changes.

[amitche8]

Piper here on the south side, we’ve got sessions running,
a few good, easy going ones as well. There’s another fellow who teaches pipes down here as well, so PM me and come play!

I typically go to Clancy’s on Sundays, Lannigans is a classic too, even without Kevin Henry

[Steve Bliven]

..... so PM me and come play....

Just a comment, with only one post, you may have difficulty using the PM. But Jerry could use your email.

Best wishes.

Steve

[Narzog]

I'll give a short story of my experience trying to get into UP's. It may be helpful to the OP or others considering the instrument.

I bought a used set on the forums. The guy sent me a video of them playing fine. But when I got them, I really couldn't get it to work correctly. Now obviously, theres a lot of things a new player can do wrong. So I'm obviously not 100% blaming the set. But, I could not get certain notes to play at all, and the tuning was really bad. I took out the rush it had and removed the tape. Which definitely helped the issue of the notes not sounding, the rush blocking that hole or something. But the tuning was still terrible, and I had to squeeze the bag incredibly hard to get it to actually play. I tried to adjust the reed, but in the process somehow messed up the bridle. So now its just loose and doing nothing, so the reed plays like its as open as possible. Which honestly, doesnt seem to be any different than it did before I messed it up lol. I then bought a reed from a reed maker who had good reviews of people saying it worked in their chanter. The reed plays significantly better and easier, no super weird quirks. But the tuning is still off with my chanter. I spent a lot of time watching videos on reed placement, and bridle placement to try and get it working right. But it seems like if its not made for your chanter you might not be able to get it perfect. And in my quest to make it play in tune, I've made it harder to play. So I've just put it off and have been working on my whistle playing more.

My main point of telling this little story. As a new player, especially if you don't have a experienced friend to get you set up right and make sure everything is working right, you really want to buy new from a maker, that's ideally local, that you can communicate with and make sure everything comes set up for you and playing how it should. Some of my issues could be user error. But there's really no way to know as an inexperienced player whats out of tune because I'm playing wrong, vs what's reed issues. It makes learning so much easier when you know what you have is solid, and then you know what to improve on to make it sound better. My UP playing is garbage but when I cant even get a single scale anywhere in tune, because I don't think its set up right, and its probobly impossible to actually play in tune, its really demotivating and takes the fun out of learning.

On the note of synthetic and non cane reeds. I love the concept of a synthetic reed. I know the video you guys are talking about. I'd take that synthetic reed set up for a good chanter, any day over cane. It maybe sounds a tad worse, but the consistency would just be amazing. I've read so much on reed care, climate messing with it, how to tweak your reed on the fly, etc. That shouldn't be needed. An instrument should be set up well and stay that way. Whistles can need minimal adjustment with a tuning slide, but nothing big. Sadly, the maker of the synthetic reed passed away and I don't think he shared his design. Maybe someone will reverse engineer it. spruce reeds are also promising. I know carbony uses spruce reeds. Matt Willis has a video on it, and it came paying quite well straight out of the box. So its in my list of possible future options. I'm planning on trying to sell my chanter, and then I need to get one that will be a bit better setup. But I keep buying whistles and microphones, which is putting off my chanter purchase lol.