Reverse staple

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dmcwhirter
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Tell us something.: I’ve been playing the Uilleann pipes since about 2002. Making reeds for various chanters..made a few amateur chanter although I’d only ever try again once I retire..much too much work involved for the craft. Currently relocated to the PNW in 2011.
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Reverse staple

Post by dmcwhirter »

Hi all,

I've been to the forum before just lost touch..

A piper acquaintance out in Vermont who's sent me a chanter from the 1930's-1940's (or thereabouts) he asked me to reed. I'm going to give it a go to reed a reverse-style rolled staple in addition to two other reeds I'll be sending back. Has anyone on the forum tried this before with success?

Any suggestions from any pipemaker's would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Daryl Mc.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

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rorybbellows
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by rorybbellows »

For what reason are you considering using a reverse taper staple.
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uillmann
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by uillmann »

Ask Nick Whitmer. I bet he knows something.
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by Steampacket »

Have you done a search Daryl, here on the uilleann forum, for "reverse or inverted staple"?

For example:

"Patsy Brown chanters on eBay" thread" - Kevin Rietmann wrote on C&F, Friday, Nov. 14, 2003 :

"As a note to anyone who buys one of these Brown chanters - if they are anything like mine, they will have a very small reed seat, and thus require a reverse taper staple. Mine works with just a slight taper in the blank; you'll need a mandrel which is the minimum diameter ID of the rolled staple, to fill up the maximum amount of room. It helps to purchase a selection of used drill bits to make mandrels with. Even with the reverse taper and as wide a reed head as possible mine is usually a little flat in the second octave, making a rush necessary. I simply use a wire bent into a loop at the bottom, with strips of cane attached with string. A great deal of experimentation is required to find what works best, and I'm still trying things out in my chanter."

Or:

Taylor's inverted staple thread:
https://staging.forums.chiffandfipple.c ... 6&t=107274

Or:

Patrick Hennelly chanter:
https://staging.forums.chiffandfipple.c ... ted+staple
dmcwhirter
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Tell us something.: I’ve been playing the Uilleann pipes since about 2002. Making reeds for various chanters..made a few amateur chanter although I’d only ever try again once I retire..much too much work involved for the craft. Currently relocated to the PNW in 2011.
Location: PNW Vancouver Island,Canada

Re: Reverse staple

Post by dmcwhirter »

Re: Steampacket Have you done a search Daryl, here on the uilleann forum, for "reverse or inverted staple"?

For example:

"Patsy Brown chanters on eBay" thread" - Kevin Rietmann wrote on C&F, Friday, Nov. 14, 2003 :

"As a note to anyone who buys one of these Brown chanters - if they are anything like mine, they will have a very small reed seat, and thus require a reverse taper staple. Mine works with just a slight taper in the blank; you'll need a mandrel which is the minimum diameter ID of the rolled staple, to fill up the maximum amount of room. It helps to purchase a selection of used drill bits to make mandrels with. Even with the reverse taper and as wide a reed head as possible mine is usually a little flat in the second octave, making a rush necessary. I simply use a wire bent into a loop at the bottom, with strips of cane attached with string. A great deal of experimentation is required to find what works best, and I'm still trying things out in my chanter."

Thanks to the folks that have weighed in so far..it's most appreciated!! I thought I'd wait for a few replies first as I know this forum has quite the library of knowledge.

I'll snap a few pics once the chanter arrives with the permission of the owner, but your comments will be very helpful me decide how to reed it (once all I read all these threads :boggle: )

FWIW, I'll be trying my own approach to reed the chanter: 1) a regular rolled staple, 2) brass hobby tubing staple, which may or may not work, & 3) a rolled reverse-styled staple (if I can ever find an example of or emulate ID/OD dimensions for.

I'll try to reach out to some of the brilliant pipemakers that have experience with these types of chanter once I receive it in the mail & measure the throat delicately.

Daryl
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

- Thomas Edison
dmcwhirter
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Tell us something.: I’ve been playing the Uilleann pipes since about 2002. Making reeds for various chanters..made a few amateur chanter although I’d only ever try again once I retire..much too much work involved for the craft. Currently relocated to the PNW in 2011.
Location: PNW Vancouver Island,Canada

Re: Reverse staple

Post by dmcwhirter »

uillmann wrote:Ask Nick Whitmer. I bet he knows something.
Thank you Uillmann :D
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

- Thomas Edison
dmcwhirter
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Location: PNW Vancouver Island,Canada

Re: Reverse staple

Post by dmcwhirter »

I received an email back from Nick W. fairly quickly.
Thanks everyone :)
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Will Woodson
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by Will Woodson »

I've had good luck reeding up a few late 19th/early 20th Irish-American chanters with reeds made on reverse taper staples over the past few years, using designs often based on measurements given on this very forum.

There's a post somewhere where Geoff Wooff gives the dimensions of the staple that was in the Touhey chanter that I used as a reference quite often when I was getting started. My own chanter is a likely Hennelly, and I've come up with my own recipe since then, and find that a blank that tapers from .57" to .55", 2 1/16" long tends to suit me. Once rolled, I flatten the staple 1 1/2" or so, with an internal eye height around .060". My best heads tend to be made from around .480" slips, with an overall tapered shape.

I suppose forming the taper and eye can be more tricky with an inverted staple. I find that working in sheet brass (as opposed to copper) helps to keep things from collapsing on you, and I made a special mandrel (based on a tool Hennelly used) to support the eye and top end of the reed when I'm flattening and shaping the thing.

I should also say that in the case of my Hennelly, I've had it reeded up reasonably well with both conventional rolled staples and tubing staples; the inverted staple design was something I adopted on my hunt for something that gave me the best internal tuning across both octaves. In my chanter, it seems to help the spread on the Es and Fs.

Happy to advise as best I can! Chanter in question can be heard here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZJL4f33 ... Vjd4AaABAg. I'm reasonably happy with how it's playing currently, although I'm still trying to sort out the slightly flat second octave G.
The Phonograph Project, a close study of Irish music from the 1920s and 30s: http://patreon.com/phonographproject

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dmcwhirter
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Tell us something.: I’ve been playing the Uilleann pipes since about 2002. Making reeds for various chanters..made a few amateur chanter although I’d only ever try again once I retire..much too much work involved for the craft. Currently relocated to the PNW in 2011.
Location: PNW Vancouver Island,Canada

Re: Reverse staple

Post by dmcwhirter »

Thanks Will! It's most appreciated!

I went .490 with the tails gouged & bark removed for the slip. Nick suggested taking an old screwdriver I didn't care for and shape it into a mandrel for the dimensions what you & others have pointed out and eye approx. 0.60 with the wide end and he mentioned the staple length was a tad longer @ 2-1/4" but said no big-deal if I'm out too much as I can always adjust it later.

For the sheet brass,, it's funny you mention that b/c I was eventually going to ask about it. It seems hobby tubing is very popular these days but some of it comes in different dimensions and therefore there isn't any particular standard when you buy it - pretty much have to measure ID/OD everytime. I'd like to try rolling one from brass sheet stock as you mentioned :)

The copper flat sheet I use is a bit thicker @ .025 & I find I have to heating it glowing orange and use my arbor press to squish the flat side (albeit unevenly sometimes) to correct the thickness. This I find is an unnecessary step as it's time consuming for what product I get out of it.

I'm receiving the 1930's-1940's Patsy Brown chanter on Thursday only then will be able to start.

Will, are you able to post a picture of staple or is it not possible?

Best regards,

Daryl
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

- Thomas Edison
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elbowmusic
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by elbowmusic »

Where's everyone getting these Patsy Brown chanters from? I want one.
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by rorybbellows »

Elpats !


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elbowmusic
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Re: Reverse staple

Post by elbowmusic »

Thank you, rorybellows, I snorted when I saw that.
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