Northumbrian vs. Uilleann

[Cristóir]

I've been playing with the idea of learning the Uilleann pipes for several years now. A few times as I gather information it has been suggested that I look into the Northumbrian pipes. The persons who have suggested this indicated that the Northumbrian pipes are less finicky re: environmental changes, reeds, etc. They were presented as being an easier instrument (not necessarily a selling point here) and more flexible as they can be had with fully chromatic chanters—is this not available with the Uilleann pipes? The music I am most interested in is ITM and jazz (on tenor saxophone)... not terribly interested in crossover/fusion/pop. Can Northumbrian pipes actually be used for ITM???

Obviously this is an Uilleann board, but I'm interested in your opinions about the two instruments: how they differ, how they are similar, sound, flexibility of playing (i.e. chromaticism), cost, maintenance, etc.

I've searched the archives and not come up with too much. Please forgive me if I've missed similar threads.

Ephrem
(a.k.a. Cristóir)

[Tim Hall]

For Northumbrian information, check out

http://www.nspipes.co.uk

Sure, you can play irish trad on NSPs, but it's not their native literature. They play easily in the keys of D and G, where most Irish music lives. While you can get them chromatic (17 keys), they do not play chromatically easily. The fingerholes produce the scale in G major; every other pitch is produced with a key. There is no halfholing or crossfingering, and every key (or fingerhole) is a separate pitch. They sound very different from uillean pipes. I'd suggest you get some CDs of NSP players and judge for yourself. There are some good compilations out now of traditional players.

By the way, much Northumbrian pipe music (in G) goes very well on a D whistle.

Tim

[Bill Reeder]

I have NSP as well as Uillleann pipes and I find that while it's possible to play Irish music on NSP, it's just not as convincing or satisfying to my ear. Most NSP are pitched around F or F# so unless you have a concert G set you won't be playing a lot in your standard ITM session. I'm not sure I can comment about reeds - I've had about as much trouble with one set as the other. You just learn how to fix the problems and go on from there.

[kevin m.]

That's the ancient flag of the Kingdom of Northumbria that's flying,so I'd better tread very carefully!
Whilst I find Northumbrian pipes to be pleasant to listen to,and I've seen some sets of NSP's that are absolute works of the craftsman's art, it is the Uilleann Pipes that I'm drawn to.Maybe I just haven't heard the right NSP players yet,but in comparison to U.p.'s ,dare I say that they are just a little 'reserved'( there,I've said it!),lacking the occasional wild passionate abandon of the U.P.'s.
Don't be surprised if I never post again-I may end up being hunted down by the descendants of 'Border Reivers' or languishing in the deepest,darkest dungeons of Alnwick Castle for this 'treasonable outburst'

[liestman]

I can comment as a part time Northumbrian builder and a terrible uilleann player who built his own drones and reeds. Yes, in my opinion Northumbrians are easier to play in that they are typically played at lower pressure and the pressure is constant throughout the range. The chanter reeds tend to be less finicky since they do not have to overblow to get more notes. The drone reeds are a bit less finicky simply because of the lower pressure and the steady pressure at which they are played.

But it all gets down to the sound you want. Uilleann pipes have certain affects they can achieve that Northumbrian can't and vice versa and these show up when listening. So just listen to some good recordings of each and then decide which you want to play. You will probably not want to make a career out of playing Irish trad tunes on NSP any more than you want to play jazz on a bassoon. Yes, it can be done, but its just not the same.

[glands]

Good points re the music....but, think of all those magnificent tunes in the NSP repertoire! Some of the slow airs are just as beautiful as Irish slow airs and can be played in a very inspiring way on NSP's...and the hornpipes!!! I'm looking forward to a set of NSP's one day.

[lemonsquash]

In my experience, the Northumbrians are more durable--as Liestman pointed out, the reed need not be overblown to achieve the full range. The worst problem I ever had with my NSP chanter reed was a little variance in the intonation of the upper end of the range--common also in Uilleann Pipes. The drones never shut down or wavered, either, and the whole playing experience was less......muscular. The tradeoff, and it is huge, is that Northumbrian pipes are not only traditionally played staccato, they can only be made to play otherwise through some serious finger acrobatics. Because the tone holes are covered with the very tip of the finger, the notion of sliding or bending notes poses serious difficulties. It can be done, to some extent--see Chris Ormston's incredible playing--but it isn't really what the chanter is set up for. To me, the crux of the matter is that the Uilleann chanter can be played just as tight as you like, if you work at it, or as loose--the Northumbrians are a little more limited by virtue of their very structure. They're both brilliant instruments. Good luck with the choice.

[marcpipes]

I love the sound of NSP for it's sweetness, but I was playing c.d. for some of my friends and they remarked quite rightly the similarity of sound to some older video games. I still love them, but one beast to learn at a time.
Marc

[Cristóir]

Thanks all for your responses. After reading a few I managed to find some samples online of different pipes other than the Uilleann pipes. I have to say that to my ear the most pleasing are the Uilleann pipes, with the Scottish smallpipes (in Ab or D, and not so much in Bb) coming in 2nd. Listening to a few different NSP players it seemed that they differ vastly in tone from one to the next, some of them sounding quite like a bright, round, toy—a game sound, indeed, while others weren't that cloying. Consistently, though, the union pipes blow me away.

Thanks again,

[stew]

Kevin M,
I come from the border coast there's nothing wrong with NSP's there lovely sounding pipes if the truth be known the men can't play them as good as the girls so us men have to be match'o and play the big boys.