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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:07 am 
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buskerSean wrote:
‘The Mainland’ is the term for England, Scotland amd Wales in Ireland.

Interesting terminology. Given the current circumstances, I wonder how much longer it will remain in use?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:09 am 
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myles wrote:
I wouldn't advise using "mainland" in certain circles :lol:

Ever since the OP, I've been biting my tongue. I note that everybody is. Phew! :boggle:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:30 am 
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I have heard this word " mainland" used by some people in Northern Ireland.... But I do not recall hearing it in the Republic!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:46 am 
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Christy Moore uses it on his song of the same name. Was that satire in itself?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:55 am 
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To me 'mainliand' sounds like a fully English notion. In just about everybody else's usage it would refer to the continent, as in mainland Europe.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:02 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:40 am 
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Could "mainland" be (or used to be) a term used by Travellers / seasonal workers?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:10 am 
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buskerSean wrote:
Christy Moore uses it on his song of the same name. Was that satire in itself?

Probably something along those lines, considering the issues of colonialism etc. discussed in the lyrics.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:32 am 
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And I never got it, what a twonk! Lesson learned.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:41 am 
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Quote:
Could "mainland" be (or used to be) a term used by Travellers / seasonal workers?


You'll occasionally find it used in some academic texts as a way of distinguishing the "mainland United Kingdom", i.e. shorthand for England / Scotland / Wales.

Other than that I think it's more a hangover from a time when a proportion, at least, of the class wielding local administrative power in Ireland took many of their political and cultural cues from London: they might have thought of that other place as the 'mainland'. Of course, not all of them did - a few were even pipers!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:40 pm 
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Just throwing some thoughts out there...

I think that a very closely related matter would be the type of music that was historically played on the pastoral/union/new/Irish family of pipes, and the settings in which it was played. As stated in your link to the National Museums Scotland page, buskerSean, "The Union Bagpipe was developed for chamber music and light opera performance in the early 18th century," and "The Union Bagpipe was used for orchestral performance in the ballad opera tradition of the 18th century and later for operatic arrangements of the Ossian Cycle."

Many of the early "gentlemen pipers" in Ireland would have been from the Anglo-Irish landed gentry, who had familial and cultural ties with Britain. The repertoire for these pipes featured music that was popular in Ireland and Great Britain of that era, including both folk and art music. There were Baroque/classical-style compositions, in addition to large selections of traditional tunes from Ireland, as well as Scotland and England, reflecting an aristocratic trend of romanticizing "pastoral" rural folkways. It seems that the regulator(s) were originally meant for harmonic accompaniment when playing art music (to mimic the aural effect of two or more instruments playing in harmony in a small orchestral ensemble?), rather than Irish traditional/folk pieces, which are driven much more by melodies played in unison than by chords and harmonies. Apparently some ITM purists still feel that regulators don't even belong in the traditional idiom, even though they are definitive to a full set of pipes.

The art music connection is also reflected in the Uilleann/Pastoral type of chanter being considered more closely related to the Baroque oboe than to other types of bagpipe chanters. I remember hearing a simplified description along the lines of "somebody basically attached a Baroque oboe to a bag." (This does make me wonder why recent reproductions of Baroque oboes don't sound anything like the UP chanter; maybe the control of the reed by the lips removes the buzziness that occurs with a free-vibrating reed?)

As time passed, this type of instrument (and its variations) lost favor with the aristocrats of Scotland, England and Ireland, and was taken up in large measure by folk musicians in Ireland, but apparently not in those other countries. And the Uilleann piping repertoire became synonymous with ITM. Purists even feel that the Uilleann pipes just don't sound right when their use is attempted outside of this musical idiom, even though originally such pipes were not limited to this specific musical tradition at all. The Baroque art music usage pretty much dropped away as a historical footnote (Jerry O'Sullivan and Tom Kannmacher are possibly the only modern-day pipers who have released recordings of Baroque music played on UP), with perhaps Turlough O'Carolan's compositions being an arguable exception. We also end up with a situation that seems nonintuitive, in which an instrument that was once a hobby reserved for the wealthy aristocracy (with complexity, quality of materials, and production time that command prices on par with concert-quality classical instruments) becomes the domain of folk musicians of much less privileged backgrounds. Maybe in the beginning they acquired second-hand instruments that the gentry had thrown out.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Interesting thoughts. I would add a few (speculative) points though

- I think the idea of the union, pastoral, whatever, pipes as a 'gentleman's' parlour instrument probably holds true to an extent for its more elaborate later form, but I'm pretty sure the original instrument was played for dancing and the like at all social levels, much like similar bagpipes around Europe. The harper Arthur O'Neill talks about "common pipers" in his memoirs, after all. And even its later incarnations were also the preserve of professional entertainers like Courtney and O'Farrell - not classed as 'gentlemen' as they played to make money - long before they ended up in the hands of street musicians.

- "Many of the early "gentlemen pipers" in Ireland would have been from the Anglo-Irish landed gentry, who had familial and cultural ties with Britain" - well, yes and no. As I mentioned earlier this was a time when there was a growing national consciousness and patriotism even among some Anglicans so you could just as easily say that the adoption of the pipes and of 'national' melodies by this social class were part of them emphasising Irish distinctiveness.

-


Last edited by myles on Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:46 pm 
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RenaissanceGuy wrote:
... Jerry O'Sullivan and Tom Kannmacher are possibly the only modern-day pipers who have released recordings of Baroque music played on UP...


Maybe not released as a commercial recording yet, but you have not heard baroque music played on the uilleann pipes, until you have heard Padraig McGovern play "The Arrival of the Queen of Sheba".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAtEnKBvmbM

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:27 am 
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Perhaps of interest there are three sets of "union" pipes up for auction in the coming G&H music instruments auction


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:59 am 
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Hi Try this

https://www.itma.ie/digital-library/tex ... bagpipes-b

and also

my evaluation here...

http://www.lulu.com/shop/dave-rowlands/ ... 83255.html

Best wishes

Dave R

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