Chiff and Fipple Forums

Hey folks!

I have a small home recording studio here at the house, but my attempts to record my half set have been a little lackluster.


I am wondering what mics and micing positions you folks use for recording, either audio only or for youtube videos?

Thanks!
Aldwyn

Start here.
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi ... difference

Thanks! Ok, so looks like boundary mics rather then micing close with a large diaphragm or ribbon?

Darn. This means I have another excuse to go mic shopping.

No no no... a good condenser or ribbon is what you need. Small or large diaphragm for the chanter depending on how much you want to isolate the source you're recording, the best is to use both: bigger one for the front holes and a supercardioid for the back D to make it stand out more. You'll need a separate one for the drones (between the bass and the baritone, look for the right balance by listening) and one for the regs. Position all the mics carefully to avoid phase cancellation, easiest way to notice it happening is when your bass starts to disappear. This is how we recorded my set for two albums. And of course you'll need to minimize reflections by padding the floor, the walls and the ceiling. It all really depends on what sort of sound you're looking to capture. Good luck and have fun, recording is a process I enjoy a lot

Frostyreeds wrote:No no no... a good condenser or ribbon is what you need. Small or large diaphragm for the chanter depending on how much you want to isolate the source you're recording, the best is to use both: bigger one for the front holes and a supercardioid for the back D to make it stand out more. You'll need a separate one for the drones (between the bass and the baritone, look for the right balance by listening) and one for the regs. Position all the mics carefully to avoid phase cancellation, easiest way to notice it happening is when your bass starts to disappear. This is how we recorded my set for two albums. And of course you'll need to minimize reflections by padding the floor, the walls and the ceiling. It all really depends on what sort of sound you're looking to capture. Good luck and have fun, recording is a process I enjoy a lot

I'll go a little further. Not only the back d but the bottom too.
And a mic for each hand as only 1 hole is sometimes open
which then can be separated in the mix having notes bounce
back and forth. And depending on exactly how much of an eternity
you want to spend mixing. If yer set is balanced one mic is fine.

OK, totally missed that.

Thanks guys! So good thing my little home studio has lots of mics! (just not enough mic stands, now!)

I know nothing about sound, but I've played hundreds of studio gigs, and the best sound they ever got from my chanter was a big mic that cost $20,000 or something like that. They just put it 2 or 3 feet from the front of my chanter and it picked up everything.

The professional studios never put a mic close, it was nearly always in that 2-3 feet range. I don't know why. And they never used more than one.

Well there was one studio where their mic was a fullsize plastic human head with realistic detailed ears and the mics were inside each ear. The theory (I guess) was to make the micing as natural as possible. They placed that head around 8 or 9 feet away from the pipes. To me the sound wasn't as good as the top-end studio mics I usually saw.

Now, stage micing is totally different of course due to feedback problems and you need the mic right on the chanter, or better yet a contact mic right on the reed itself.

Your post sheds a lot of light on the reasoning contained in this classic scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKmNkDcDuk

One large diaphragm mic is certainly enough if you just want to record the chanter alone and you don't need stereo (you rarely do for the chanter anyway).

A separate back-D mic can be useful to give the note more definition when recording the whole set at once with lots of regulator playing, especially if there's tape over the back-D hole that makes it more quiet, because the regs will leak into the main chanter mic and muddle things up a bit. Micing the regs separately will give you greater freedom in positioning things in the stereo image.

As far as mic distance goes, you get a more natural sound when it's not too close to the chanter. If it's very close it will start sounding metallic and unpleasant, also the notes closest to the mic will be louder and out of balance and high notes will distort the sound. A good large mic a healthy distance away to pick up the natural tone is indeed the best way to do it. With a very quiet flat chanter, closer micing can give the sound more definition and punch, but it will also pick up the sound of your fingers hammering the wood. It's all about what purpose you're recording for and how you want it to sound in the mix.

I just used a little Behringer condensor in this video - maybe a little lackluster and a bit too 'condensed' for my liking - I prefer the robust sound of the Leo Rowsome and Willie Clancy recordings - but you can see the mic position and that it picks up every note including Back D and the drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8at9Tg61rno

Has any enterprising pipe maker ever thought of trying to design and build a chantertop with a built in mic?

ausdag wrote:I just used a little Behringer condensor in this video - maybe a little lackluster and a bit too 'condensed' for my liking - I prefer the robust sound of the Leo Rowsome and Willie Clancy recordings - but you can see the mic position and that it picks up every note including Back D and the drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8at9Tg61rno

Excellent playing, BTW!

With all said and done, I am wondering if I pull out the old SM57 that I usually use for micing amps would do well? That on the chanter and the Rhode NT2-A for the drones, or even for the whole set, rather then 1' from the chanter like I have been trying...

I have been mic'd many times, in all kinds of settings. The best my pipes ever sounded was in the engineer's girlfriend's house, in her highly-tuffetted bedroom. Pillows were piled high on the ruffled bed in front of me, and the room was as dead as dead could ever be. I did my best for 10 minutes, and he did very little in the studio except for adding a bit of reverb/whatever. Sounded fantastic, Neuman mic's.

The worst recording session was when an "engineer" failed to even bother to record my first and perfect take, only to make me suffer 5 hours of stale air, heat and humidity, and complain about my pitch the whole rest of the time. What an ordeal. I finally gave him something that "he could work with."

Aldwyn wrote:

ausdag wrote:I just used a little Behringer condensor in this video - maybe a little lackluster and a bit too 'condensed' for my liking - I prefer the robust sound of the Leo Rowsome and Willie Clancy recordings - but you can see the mic position and that it picks up every note including Back D and the drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8at9Tg61rno

Excellent playing, BTW!

With all said and done, I am wondering if I pull out the old SM57 that I usually use for micing amps would do well? That on the chanter and the Rhode NT2-A for the drones, or even for the whole set, rather then 1' from the chanter like I have been trying...

Thanks
I've had good results with my SM57 too, placed roughly in the same position. The best sound I've ever had produced that had that nice full 'nyahh' to it was when a guy placed an instrument mic in front of me and a big condenser thing hanging above my head.

Over the years I’ve read many posts on this topic.

The best advice I have to give is to avoid multiple chanter mics. These will inevitably result in phase cancellation effects which alter the tone and make the sound sensitive to minute position changes.

The best advice I’ve encountered about microphone placement, which was based on experience and which my own experience has borne out, is that the mic should be placed slightly to the side of the chanter so as to capture more of the back d. (See from above, maybe 30 degrees from the chanter front). It works best for me if this is from the right side rather than the left. Point the mic somewhere between two and a half and six inches from the chanter (on the close side for stage, to reduce feedback; on the farther side for “studio” type situations). I prefer a cardioid pattern even for studio, and of course a highly directional mic is vital for stage settings to avoid feedback. I put the mic positioned well above the csharp/d tonehole positions, pointed obliquely down towards the popping strap. This not only captures more of the bottom D character, it helps make up for the fact that the whole bottom hand is farther from the mic, and it helps capture the off-the-knee effects as well.

I don’t like SM dynamic mics at all for the chanter. I’ve had good results with a cheap 1” condenser (T-Bone SC400) but sometimes use a more expensive small diaphragm condenser with interchangeable capsules (Octava). The difference where the chanter is concerned doesn’t seem huge.

This chanter mic captures some of the regs but they end up a bit quiet, which suits me fine; the reg notes that the chanter mic doesn’t hear get picked up by the drone mic. For the drones I like a cardioid 1” with the bass roll off defeated, and point it more or less towards the bass and baritone drones, usually from below on a small stand. If the mic points away from the floor it seems better. The tenor drone is picked up adequately by the chanter mic.

Hope that helps someone who read this far...