New to piping - Best way to long roll back D?

[rglight]

I got a practice set a month or two ago, but I've been playing whistle for several months. I haven't figured out a better way to roll on the back D except to double pat by "rubbing" my thumb on the hole. I don't know if this is right. Are there other (recommended) ways of playing a d-triplet or a long roll on d besides this? Thanks

[Tom_S]

Have a gander at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=99982

From what I've gathered, some ornaments on the back D can be quite contentious! I quite like the sound of the "tinker's trick" back D triplet but there are other ornaments that are good too like a staccato D triplet or just a simple DCD. Putting some good vibrato while holding a long back D note can also sound good.

[PCL]

The best way is ... don't do it! (Unless you're Paddy Keenan.)

[Pyroh]

In addition to previous suggestions, I quite like playing D-ghostD-D instead of a roll in its place.

[rglight]

Thanks for all the replies. I admit I rather like the d-ghost d-d suggestion, but maybe that's just because I really like the timbre of the ghost d.

[JR]

The best way is ... don't do it! (Unless you're Paddy Keenan.)

Yes, I agree. Most of Paddy's emulators fail to implement this technique in the quite same way. I've a feeling this might contribute to the widespread notoriety of the 'rubbed D', that and the Scottish association.

I find the key with rubbing the D is to use it almost as a grace note, as if to hit the note as it's coming in. Leave some space for the rest of the note. If you are going to use it as a triple then treat it like a cranned E and keep it tight and as punctuated as you can.

Either way, if you are going to use it, be aware that it's possibly one of the most polarising techniques on the pipes. Make it count and don't over do it.

I don't use it myself that often, I much prefer the 'long shaken D' of Johnny Doran (Job of Journeywork etc) that's somehow gone out of fashion of late. I'm bringing it back!

[dyersituations]

Another option I've heard is DED, much like the previously suggested DCD.

[An Draighean]

In addition to previous suggestions, I quite like playing D-ghostD-D instead of a roll in its place.

I prefer this also; works well in some situations.

[An Draighean]

I don't use it myself that often, I much prefer the 'long shaken D' of Johnny Doran (Job of Journeywork etc) that's somehow gone out of fashion of late. I'm bringing it back!

Hmmm... I'll have to have another listen to my JD records, this sounds interesting.

I'm also a fan of the shakes on F and other notes that Seamus Ennis was known to do.

[Flutulator]

Another option I've heard is DED, much like the previously suggested DCD.

I have been playing for maybe two (?) months, but in the tunes I am working up, I usually do DED or Long D + finger waggle vibrato (Usually the index finger on the lower hand.)

[PCL]

Melodic variations, such as d-e-d, d-ghost d-d, d-c#-d, etc., are not attempts to imitate a roll. Use them at your pleasure.

[pancelticpiper]

I view these as "long roll situations" where the player can choose to play a long roll, or do a number of other things, which all occupy the same amount of time and are more or less musically equivalent.

It's the way these vary so much from player to player, and with the same player as he/she progresses through the various repeats of the phrase, that make ABC tune searches so often come up with nothing.

So to me the most common-feeling thing would be to do D C# D, in like manner that many other instruments would often do it.

Or D B C# D, a triplet put in there, often "tight" on the pipes.

You'll hear pipers sometimes just play a long D, often with a "ghost D" gracenote.

To put it into "classical" musical terms, amongst the things you can do are

-play a dotted quarternote
-put the upper or lower neighbor-tone in the middle (E, Eb, C#)
-put a note that's a member of the chord (say, F# or B) (this isn't as common but I hear people doing it).

This is only the tip of the iceberg.

[amckay]

BC#D staccato triplet can replace the back d triplet in many instances. I used this before getting my thumb around the back d triplet. Now its a question of which ornament best suits the tune and as everyone else says, don't over use it!

[buskerSean]

Love a good back d ornament. Vibrato, thumb roll or backstitch it. The latter is d, g, f#, d with the g & f# taking one beat and the d's one beat each. Brian Howard mentions the thumb roll in detail here http://www.howardmusic.co.uk/owners_clu ... _chart.htm

[john]

I'm not sure what a shaken back d is. Where can I hear one?