Flat/Concert

[bcullen]

I have a flat set and a concert set in D (with 2 chanters) First off will the D flat set drones work with a D concert chanter. What I want to do is make two concert sets So before I go changing the neck for the chanter and getting another set of drones up to scratch will it work ?

Also If I now have 2 concert Ds can i put the flat D chanter in and it becomes a flat set?

One set of drones is slightly smaller than the other so it has its own bag the stock is also narrower.



Bryan

[Tom_S]

I'm confused!

Normally when people talk about flat sets, or flat chanters, they're talking about the chanter playing at a lower pitch. ie C#, C, or B.

All D chanters are known as concert pitch.

Do you mean you have a narrow bore chanter and a wider bore chanter, both in D?

[An Draighean]

I have a flat set and a concert set in D (with 2 chanters) First off will the D flat set drones work with a D concert chanter. What I want to do is make two concert sets So before I go changing the neck for the chanter and getting another set of drones up to scratch will it work ?

Also If I now have 2 concert Ds can i put the flat D chanter in and it becomes a flat set?

One set of drones is slightly smaller than the other so it has its own bag the stock is also narrower.



Bryan

I think you may be confusing terms here - flat sets are "flat" because they are lower in pitch than concert pitch (D). If you have D drones, they will be in tune with any D chanter, be it wide or narrow bore. Narrow-bore D chanters are an attempt to get some of the tonal possibilities of a flat chanter in a concert-pitch chanter, but they do not play lower than a normal wide-bore D chanter.

Unless I am completely misunderstanding your question, which is not out of the realm of possibility...

[bcullen]

There you go always learning. They are both then in concert D one small (lots of keys) and one wide So is every thing interchangable
as long as the orifices match

So the difference in size of the drones would be softer/louder

Whenever flat sets were referred to I just assumed they were the quieter ones and much preferred by some pipers
Ooooops

[An Draighean]

There you go always learning. They are both then in concert D one small (lots of keys) and one wide So is every thing interchangable
as long as the orifices match

Yes, so long as the chanter neck fits the bag.

So the difference in size of the drones would be softer/louder

Or just the difference between makers? Not everyone uses the same dimensions.

Whenever flat sets were referred to I just assumed they were the quieter ones and much preferred by some pipers

A flat set (or a narrow-bore D) may or may not be a lot quieter than wider-bore concert pitch instruments, it depends on how they are set up and reeded. The attraction of a flat set is not reduction in volume, it is the tonal colours, shadings, expressiveness, and alternate notes that can be procured from them.

[PJ]

I've noticed recently that more and more people are referring to narrow bore D as "flat". Not just pipers, but makers too. This may have been happening for quite a while, but I've just recently noticed it.

I'm a little confused about what's being discussed here, particularly regarding the bcullen's goal. Is it to be able to play two chanters with one set of drones ? If so, my suggestion would be to consider whether the chanters and the drones are balanced, in terms of volume, tone and air-pressure. A narrow bore D will certainly be in tune with wide bore D drones, but what is the overall effect? For instance, I'm not a fan of drones made by a particular pipe-maker which, IMO, tend to overwhelm the chanter in the lower octave.

[bcullen]

My aim is to utilize the instruments I have so I can get the best use out of them. I have reeded and played the NB and all those keys are daunting and the sound is soft. So I will stick for a while with WB and try to get two half sets going. Now I have the advice that YES
it will work but it is all about balance I have something to work with.

Reply with quote
I've noticed recently that more and more people are referring to narrow bore D as "flat". Not just pipers, but makers too

Thank you. I am not sure where I got the info but that was my interpretation. The beauty of a forum like this is there are no "Stupid questions" and your responses have been very informative.
I have made 2 WB D chanters a Blue Gum (my favourite) and an African blackwood one with a Cnat key I have also just finished making a set of regulators .Took a year to make the regs and was a hell of a job. So I can find my way around the many nuances of the instrument.I will post pic later. The pipes are not a learning curve they are a whole new world of head f@@#$$ and achivements in differing quantities.
Bryan

[bcullen]

Some bits blue gum, african blackwood and macassar

[benoit trémolières]

You can do a lot with reeds, on drones either.
Depending on the cane inside diameter, you can make them powerfull or soft, and completly change the tone.
It's always a big job to set and balance a set of drones as you wich, but spend time on it, i'm sure you can have your drones settled somewhere between soft and strong, and quite suit with both of your chanters.
If the requiered pressure needed by each of them is much not the same, you'll have to set the reeds in order to get a wide range of stability.
This could be the difficult part of the job, but I'm pretty sure it is possible.

All can be done with reeds, the bores matter for very little !

[bcullen]

All can be done with reeds, the bores matter for very little

Yeah I can understand the drones and regulator bores not being critical I only had to make a reamer for the bass as the chanter reamers even the stuff ups could be utilized after the initial drilling of regs. But to get a Rowsome bore using 3 reamers was critical
The bit of advice i gleaned after many tries to improve on what I thought were ancient methods was "treat ever bit you are working on as if it was the most important and critical part of the pipes". I have not lived up to this advice but I know where I need to improve.

Also my workshop is entry level and very hands on. I learn more about myself than the art of pipe making and playing. Its all worth it

Yes, so long as the chanter neck fits the bag.

I am going to make all the chanter reed caps where they meet the bag uniform or come up with an adaptor
Bryan

[daveboling]

All can be done with reeds, the bores matter for very little !

I'm not sure I completely agree with this. I know that the tonal quality or volume of sound can be adjusted through reed variation, but how would adjusting a reed allow a concert pitch D chanter gain the range of cross-fingerings possible with a narrow bore chanter? I have heard sets pitched in C and B that sound and play like a stretched Rowsome D set. Not a bad sound, but not what I am interested in.
I am currently looking for a 3/4 or full flat set which is capable of the tonal color and flexibility characteristic of the old narrow bore instruments, but have been unable to find which makers lower-than-D pitched instruments fall into this category. I would guess Geoff Wooff's, Derrick Gleeson's, Joe Kennedy's, and Benedict Koehler's and David Quinn's creations fit into this group, but all have closed books or wait times longer than my expected remaining span of years. Would someone who has heard sets by other makers who would fall into this category be willing to PM me? The last thing I want is another thread about whose sets are good and whose are kindling. Our surliness should saved for box and banjo players

dave boling

[NicoMoreno]

Did you actually communicate with Joe Kennedy? One of my students put in an order for a B set just over a year ago, and it should be coming up in the next year - not a long wait at all.

[bcullen]

All can be done with reeds, the bores matter for very little !

I have made a number of chanters: One was a complete stuff up because I tried to step drill 4.0mm...70mm back from the reed end and made a mess
I experimented by reaming and reeding the chanter. The result was not what I expected the stuffed end of the chanter played well BUT the F# E D, wide end were non playable. So another experiment. I filled the chanter from the reed seat up to the A hole (Ok go for it)) with Agnews water putty, left for a week, reamed, polished and oiled the bore. The chanter plays well. So it should be possible to fix a breaking back D from the wide end and fix a low D cran from the reed end. The reed can only do so much. To me the bore is the most important component.

Just an aside The mild cutting, polishing and oiling of the bore (rice bran) made a massive difference to all the chanters
Bryan

[geoff wooff]

All can be done with reeds, the bores matter for very little !

I'm not sure I completely agree with this. I know that the tonal quality or volume of sound can be adjusted through reed variation, but how would adjusting a reed allow a concert pitch D chanter gain the range of cross-fingerings possible with a narrow bore chanter? I have heard sets pitched in C and B that sound and play like a stretched Rowsome D set. Not a bad sound, but not what I am interested in.
I am currently looking for a 3/4 or full flat set which is capable of the tonal color and flexibility characteristic of the old narrow bore instruments, but have been unable to find which makers lower-than-D pitched instruments fall into this category. I would guess Geoff Wooff's, Derrick Gleeson's, Joe Kennedy's, and Benedict Koehler's and David Quinn's creations fit into this group, but all have closed books or wait times longer than my expected remaining span of years. Would someone who has heard sets by other makers who would fall into this category be willing to PM me? The last thing I want is another thread about whose sets are good and whose are kindling. Our surliness should saved for box and banjo players

dave boling

Dave,
Derrick Gleeson's waiting list is not closed or of an over long duration... contact at : gleeson.u.pipes@gmail.com

Good luck,
Geoff.