my incorrect hand position

[pancelticpiper]

I've been playing uilleann pipes 40 years now and I've been told my upper-hand position is "wrong" many times over the years.

I've always accepted this. It's because I came to the uilleann pipes from the Highland pipes and I never switched my upper hand to the "correct" way, that is, holding the chanter at an angle, and having the end-joint pad of the upper-hand ring finger on its hole, and the middle-joint pad of the middle and index fingers on their holes.

On Highland pipes the chanter is vertical, not at an angle, and the upper had approaches the chanter perpendicularly, so that all three upper-hand fingers seal their holes with the same pads. Some pipers use the end-joint pads, some the middle-joint pads.

So I was surprised to see in this video

https://vimeo.com/131638804

at around 52:48 Mikey Doran playing with his upper hand like mine. This is doubly interesting because Felix Doran played in the usual and "correct" way.

Any other pipers out there do it "wrongly" like myself? Have you been told to change, as I have been? (I don't suspect anyone would go up to Mikey Doran and tell him he's playing wrongly! But as an "ignorant American" I get told that.)

Ironically I've learnt the "piper's grip" on my upper hand recently not by playing pipes but by playing big Low Whistles. I recently got a huge Bass "A" and that's the only way I can finger the thing.

Here's a photo of me playing and you can see my "incorrect" Highland pipe style hand positions



My lower-hand fingers look odd there and I think I know why: I'm scooping up to "E".

[daveboling]

If all they can pick at is the angle you hold your chanter, then I wonder what they say about Paddy Keenan who regularly holds his chanter 90 degrees anticlockwise to yours (assuming you're right handed). If you can get the stick to do what you want, reed allowing, I'd fire back at them that if they don't like it then they're probably one of those who breathes in on tight triplets (watch them try to monitor their breathing the next time they play )
I've changed over the years how I hold the chanter, and as a result where the holes fall on my fingers. Sometimes it's been as a result of a callous or cut from boat building (where a dull tool is the only thing more dangerous than some of my ideas) where I change position to be able to successfully seal the holes.

dave boling

[An Draighean]

But seriously, whatever works for you. It's the music / sound that matters, not what you look like making it.

If you're taking a poll, then I play mine the "conventional" way, i.e. chanter angled and top-hand fingers horizontal or nearly so.

[Tou-Che]

Just ranting. Do you think if you played with the pads oppose to the tips of your fingers you would be a better more efficient piper? If you were a helicopter pilot would you prefer to land on 8'x12' or 40'x60' pad (chopper being your finger pad being the hole). My intuition tells me the bigger pad would give you more room for error and a faster landing. Are squeaks, timing, rhythm, speed etc. an issue for you? If I'm thinking about changing something that I know is going to take a decade to undo....It really needs to be worth it?

I'm battling something posture related. I recently acquired regs and I'm realizing it's much easier for me to get over the regs if I play with my top wrist straight/arched putting the chanter on more of an angle which naturally puts my lower wrist over the regs. I never realized before I play with a collapsed top wrist. I have been working on this change and I'm realizing my fingers aren't as tight and maybe carpal tunnel will have to wait. So for me it's worth the change.

**For the record I would never confront anybody on their posture unless they brought the topic to me**

[Ted]

I have a student who just started on uilleann pipes but is a Grade 2 GHB piper. He was doing the same thing as you Richard and was trying to hold the chanter vertical. This is common for pipers coming from GHB. I got him to tilt the chanter about 45 degrees and to slant his top hand fingers as you were told. This was not difficult once he got used to it. It makes the regulator keys easier to get to. If you aren't playing regulators I don't think your position is "wrong", just not standard for UP. Without the tilt to the chanter the bottom hand cannot access the regulator keys easily. My student definitely wants to play the regulators later on and he thanked me for helping him with this. When he came back last week he said it is now second nature for him to tilt the chanter and have the slant to his top hand fingers. As you have been playing this way for years, the change would be harder, but not as hard as trying to access all the regulator keys with a vertical chanter. I played GHB before playing UP and had to relearn my grip. I'm glad I did. If you don't play regulators I don't think it is an issue.

[Vanzetti]

That is exactly how I hold the chanter and I've always been told it has not been correct, but I think it might be more accurate to say it is not contemporary. I recall reading that Mr. O'Farell recommended playing with the top hand notes with the tips of the fingers and that it was fairly common "back in the day". That being said, I can switch to the standard way and I made a handful of recordings to try to determine if I could hear any difference. The only time that I think it matters would be going for that Ennisish 'c', which we all adore, I think.

[rgouette]

If I were one of those curmudgeonly Uilleann Pipers,
I probably say something like, "hold the &$^%. thing which ever
Way you need to to make music"

Luckily, I'm not

[bcullen]

I posted not long ago about finger position and was advised to go for the so called correct position (for left hand speed) I am now in a catch 22 situation where I float between 2 positions. But with hands as big as mine I have trouble having the pad of the 3rd finger over the hole and lining up with the meat of the other fingers. Maybe splints on 2 fingers would prevent using the pads Has anyone considered moving the top 2 holes a smidge to the left and the back d a bit to the right Ive got a disgusting Pakistani chanter might do a bit of filling and drilling

Bryan

[Flutulator]

Interesting timing -

I just got a practice set a few weeks ago (at the moment I actually have two!). Also, I made it to grade II, solo and band, in GHB, about 30 years ago or so. (Have not played much GHB since college)

I've found that the most comfortable position to strap on the set goes around my lower rib cage. This gives a lot of leverage when it comes to bagging. When the bag is in a lower position, I find myself using my inner forearm to pressure the bag, which does not work too well. My teacher said that the bag position was fine. This bag position results in a fairly vertical chanter.

Anyhoo, I'm starting using "correct" fingering, but I find my top hand has a lot less dexterity than I am used to - on flute, GHB, or whistles. My ring finger, in particular, is fully extended; there's a bit of a recurve to it, actually. It feels weird and has less mobility than feels good. Is this something that is "normal," that I can practice out of, or a problem?

[Flutulator]

Just ranting. Do you think if you played with the pads oppose to the tips of your fingers you would be a better more efficient piper? If you were a helicopter pilot would you prefer to land on 8'x12' or 40'x60' pad (chopper being your finger pad being the hole). My intuition tells me the bigger pad would give you more room for error and a faster landing. Are squeaks, timing, rhythm, speed etc. an issue for you? If I'm thinking about changing something that I know is going to take a decade to undo....It really needs to be worth it?

On the flip side, if you use the middle bone of the fingers, there's less motion required --> more efficiency. Maybe? Dunno, just a theory. This is how I grip my Irish flute on the bottom hand, and there's no problem whatsoever with covering holes or executing ornaments. (but I did have to get my key blocks made so that they'd not get in the way)

[pancelticpiper]

On the video I referenced, at the point I referenced, Mikey Doran is blazing away on the regs with the "wrong" or "Highland pipe" finger position.

I just find it interesting that the direct piping descendants of the famous Felix Doran play with this hand posture which is supposedly foreign to the uilleann pipes, supposedly incorrect, supposedly crippling to regulator playing.

[bcullen]

Has anyone considered moving the top 2 holes a smidge to the left and the back d a bit to the right

When I wrote the above it was a bit tongue in cheek. Here's a quote from Tim Britton

the horizontal hole offset may have been intentional as per my instructions which place the holes more ergonomically than simply straight down the front and back of the chanter, which, in my experience, is not quite how the hands naturally want to sit on the chanter.

Bryan
I am not a grumpy old man, I am a curmudgeon

[myles]

This might be wide of the mark but I get the impression that piping seems to be particularly afflicted with this idea that certain things are simply "wrong". Look at the arguments in Highland piping over settings. Perhaps it's a result of the historic perception that the pipes are a uniquely ancient instrument and its players are the heirs of generation after generation of etc etc etc.

In reality preferences change over time as teachers transmit them to their pupils. I suspect that in technical terms we're currently heavily under the influence of Leo Rowsome, and perhaps Ennis. It'll be interesting to see how the era of the Internet and the standardisation of teaching practices works out.

The artist might have been making details up as he went along but I always found the depiction of Paddy Conneely an interesting one with respect to chanter position:

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/itma. ... irst23.jpg

[Calum]

This might be wide of the mark but I get the impression that piping seems to be particularly afflicted with this idea that certain things are simply "wrong".

The whole question of what it means to be "wrong" in a traditional art form is a fascinating one, and I suspect several PhDs could be written about it, and we'd still be sitting here discussing it.

I certainly play automatically with the GHB grip, which is hardly surprising. That said, tilting the chanter over and angling my hand isn't a problem for me. My bag setup at the moment isn't really ideal, so I need to do some fiddling around with that, to be honest.

[bcullen]

I could not agree more. Possible Rowsome, Egan and Taylor with design.

This might be wide of the mark but I get the impression that piping seems to be particularly afflicted with this idea that certain things are simply "wrong".

THE BIG WRONGS OR...................................
Some players I feel will be more influenced by the endless sound embellishments and possibilities of modern recording that can and are used to pull every emotion and spirit from the pipes still retaining that timeless appeal of an ancient craft. "Is this a wrong" ?

3D printed pipes "is this a wrong" scary


Bryan