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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:22 am 
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Anyone else play the unusual Pat Mitchell setting of the air 'Lord Mayo' that he apparently learned from a James Early wax cylinder? I think Emmett Gill plays the same setting on The Mountain Groves.

It's very different to most other versions (e.g. Gay McKeown's) and to 19th century printed sources of the tune. I wonder if anyone had worked out how it relates to these other versions exactly - there seems to be some vague connection between the tunes but I can't get my head round exactly how it got from the melody set down by Bunting et al. to its current form. Or are there actually multiple unrelated airs here?

Great tune, either way, Mitchell's (Kiernan?) chanter really brings out the best in it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:17 pm 
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myles wrote:
Anyone else play the unusual Pat Mitchell setting of the air 'Lord Mayo' that he apparently learned from a James Early wax cylinder?


No, but it is a lovely air.

The Lord Mayo I learned (and still like) is a march, that I learned from a Seán Ó Riada record.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:33 am 
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I am in the throes of learning Gay McKeown's version of Lord Mayo and also note that A few bars are used to the introduction
of Heather Clarks piping tutorial. Has she a recording of it anywhere ?

I used to play a guitar version learnt from Davy Graham and since picking up the pipes have transposed it. So hearing Gay McKeown's version I have now been able to fine tune it. Where can I hear Pat Mitchells version?
Bryan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:00 am 
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It's on Mitchell's album 'Uilleann Pipes' (available in mp3 from Amazon etc, as a full album or single tracks). There aren't nearly as many recordings of this air (Mitchell refers to it as a 'northern' version) as there are of the one that Gay McKeown plays, but it's an equally attractive tune if very different in feel.

As An Draighean pointed out there is also a march with the same title, just to confuse matters. I always liked Davey Graham's interpretation too!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:00 am 
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This looks like it: [url] http://162.13.136.126/data/IMCO/TP31-TiarnaMhuigheo.HTM /url]


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:02 am 
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Yes, that's the one, cheers.

I saw that there are two 'traditions' as to who composed the air - David Murphy and Thady O'Keenan - but most references to this assume the same air is being referred to. Two different airs might however explain it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:06 am 
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Similar settings of Tiarna Mhaigh Eo appear in Walker (1786), O'Farrell (1808), Bunting (1809), Mulholland (1810), and Holden (1818). Excepting Bunting, all of these can be found on NPU's website. They sound like harp tunes. With a change in rhythm they become the march commonly played today. The Early-McFadden version, published in Tacar Port 3 (1962), is a variation on that played by Gay McKeon (also recorded on The Chieftains 3, from which I learned it). To my ear, these two are closely related to the harpers' settings.

Walker writes that the words were composed by David Murphy and the tune composed by Thady Keenan (This is not to say that Murphy didn't also compose a tune, but the words have become attached to Keenan's melody.) Is David Murphy the same Murphy who was a contemporary of Turlough O'Carolan? Although Walker writes that the song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCvcMoHan9w) probably predates Carolan, we can tell from verses that include the names of family members, that the Lord Mayo in question is Theobald Bourke, 6th Viscount Mayo, 1681 – 1741; thus, David Murphy was a contemporary of Carolan (1670 - 1738) and may have been the same Murphy who quarrelled with him, as reported in the memoirs of Arthur O'Neill.

David Murphy was a harper to Lord Mayo. Somehow the two had a falling out. If David Murphy is the one described by O'Neill, he was a superlative harper who played in Paris at the court of Louis XIV (the Sun King). I wonder if the falling out involved Murphy's departure from Ireland to play in France. Lord Mayo might have felt more than slighted that his protégé had gone into service for a mere king. With the death of Louis XIV in 1715, Murphy could have found himself without support and in necessity of returning to Mayo to seek forgiveness.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Lots of good information, cheers.

What I still can't get my head round is how the Early / McFadden version (which does indeed sound like a harp tune) relates to the McKeon / Chieftains one. I'm usually fairly good at picking up on correspondences between tunes but this one completely defeats my ear for some reason...even after playing through both settings.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:56 pm 
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I don't think they are related, personally. By the way, in case you didn't know, Early & McFadden were given the tune by Turlough McSweeney (you can view a copy in the Dunn family collection at the Ward Irish Music Archives signed by him which was given the Early), so it seems likely to have come via Donegal.

http://archives.irishfest.com/Dunn-Fami ... -003-8.jpg
http://archives.irishfest.com/Dunn-Fami ... 006_10.jpg
And nice and clear: http://archives.irishfest.com/Dunn-Fami ... 002-20.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:20 pm 
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NicoMoreno wrote:
I don't think they are related, personally. By the way, in case you didn't know, Early & McFadden were given the tune by Turlough McSweeney (you can view a copy in the Dunn family collection at the Ward Irish Music Archives signed by him which was given the Early), so it seems likely to have come via Donegal.

http://archives.irishfest.com/Dunn-Fami ... -003-8.jpg
http://archives.irishfest.com/Dunn-Fami ... 006_10.jpg
And nice and clear: http://archives.irishfest.com/Dunn-Fami ... 002-20.jpg


I've just caught up with this - cheers. It's fascinating to see these, and and reading the dots the underlying connection between the march version and the 'Donegal' (McSweeney/Early/Mitchell) version of the air, at least, becomes much clearer. And it feels even better to be playing an air handed down from the 'Donegal Piper' himself!

Interesting to see he's calling himself Charles McSweeney here, as he was recorded on the census.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:53 am 
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It's worth noting how different the way Early and McFadden play the air is compared to those notes though! McFadden was a prolific composer (and variator) of tunes, but their playing seems to also follow the style of Early's air playing, so it's hard to say who is responsible. My best guess is that it's both, though - the practice of playing together and working out how to be that tight (close to each other) most likely lead naturally to the differences.


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