Keyless chanters - Yes or No?

[Oldpiping]

Hi,

I am thinking to get a good D chanter, but in keyless version. Just wanted to know if you can play similar music to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-8ejXVP_HE (D pitch starting at 3.11) without keys successfully? And other similar slower stuff as well! I gues you can use cross fingerings or half holing even for C and F natural in both octaves, if both, chanter and player are capable enought.

How many of you out there actualy play without keys? Anyone at all?

Btw - I used to own fully keyed chanter years ago when started, but never used the keys at that point. Later I sold it and quit.
I think Paddy Keenan once said that it's best to learn to play everything without keys 1st.

Your thoughts are very welcome, Thanks!

[Ketil]

No keys here and too many tunes and airs to learn! I used to own a keyed flute, but found out it actually complicated the learning process for me. I started looking for tunes to use the keys and it set me back. So no keys for me for a long time ahead. No regulators either..

[An Draighean]

Hi,

I am thinking to get a good D chanter, but in keyless version. Just wanted to know if you can play similar music to this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-8ejXVP_HE (D pitch starting at 3.11) without keys successfully? And other similar slower stuff as well! I gues you can use cross fingerings or half holing even for C and F natural in both octaves, if both, chanter and player are capable enought.

How many of you out there actualy play without keys? Anyone at all?

Btw - I used to own fully keyed chanter years ago when started, but never used the keys at that point. Later I sold it and quit.
I think Paddy Keenan once said that it's best to learn to play everything without keys 1st.

Your thoughts are very welcome, Thanks!

The tune you linked to is someone playing "An Chúilfhionn" (or The Coolin), a very popular slow air, set in the key of G major. So, using nothing more a piper's C (natural), you could easily play this air without any keys at all.

There are loads of slow airs set in the keys of G major and D major, if that is what you like. There are also some very beautiful ones that have F natural as an accidental note; certainly it is possible to play F natural on most chanters, by a combination of the E fingering off the knee and half-holing the F, but an F Natural key makes it a lot easier (if without some subtle nuances and slides you can get, doing it without a key).

The most common key on any chanter is a high C-natural key, as this is harder to play in tune by cross fingering. After that, the other chanter keys are just for convenience in playing in other keys than G or D major and their relative minors, mixolydians, and etc. A lot of fiddle tunes are in A Major, so it is nice to have a G# key if you are going to play with fiddles in a session. The others are used less frequently - but I did play a beautiful Christmas air for a concert last holiday season that was in D minor, so I was glad to have the Bb key on the chanter I used to do that. Haven't used it before or since though.

In short, chanter keys just give you more flexibility and options, but you can still enjoy years (a lifetime?) of playing without them. Probably 90% (wild guess) of session tunes would never require them.

Personally, I have five chanters currently - two have only one key (high C natural), one has two keys, one has four keys, and one has five keys. Except for that Christmas tune in D minor, I never choose which chanter I'm going to play based on the number of keys; I play the ones that sound the best for the types of tunes I am playing, or are suited for playing with others. The keys just fall where they may, a far second or third consideration.

[myles]

I'm currently keyless and don't find it a hindrance.

As I understand it the keys are largely a relic of an era when the instrument's repertoire was a bit different to now, and they don't provide the same sort of easy chromaticism you'd get on a modern orchestral instrument anyway.

As An Draighean mentioned the majority of airs have settings in D or, particularly, G, so you can get nearly everything you need on an unkeyed chanter. Unless you take a fancy to playing the G minor setting of 'Valentia Harbour' or whatever

[pancelticpiper]

I guess you can use cross fingerings or half holing even for C and F natural in both octaves, if both, chanter and player are capable enough.

About C natural, a crossfingered C natural is standard practice in the low register. I don't think there's any crossfingering that gives a satisfactory C natural in the upper register, but that note doesn't occur in a large percentage of tunes.

About F natural, there's no crossfingering that gives an in-tune F natural in either octave. For sure you can play F# in the upper register and the pitch lowers when you take the chanter off your leg, or likewise you can play E in the upper register and the pitch rises when you take the chanter off your leg, but neither note, on my chanter, is a usable in-tune F natural.

It's traditional for pipers to bend their lower-hand middle finger off the chanter, venting the hole, to create a note somewhere between F natural and F sharp, and use this distinctive piping thing in places where a box would play F natural.

Listen to Willie Clancy for brilliant use of both the crossfingered C natural and the vented F natural.

Anyhow in my opinion it's not necessary to have any keys on a chanter to play the standard traditional uilleann pipe settings of the traditional uilleann pipe repertoire, the only exception being if you want to play tunes that need the high C natural.

However, back in 1978 when I decided I was through with "practice sets" and it was time to buy a "real chanter" I went all-out and spent the then-ungodly sum of $375 on a fully keyed fully mounted chanter by David Quinn.

The chanter has the Long F Natural key, G#, Bb, the back High C Natural key, and a High D side-key. I've never regretted getting all the keys, and I've used every single one of them on gigs at some point.

And it allows me to quote Friends when I'm asked "how many keys does your chanter have?"

"All of them."

[pancelticpiper]

I have five chanters currently

Wow. I've only got the one, the one I've played since 1978.

The only "D" chanter; I need a "C" chanter fairly often, to play in C and F, at "legit" gigs. My "C" is an inexpensive one, in resin, keyless, by the Boston Uilleann Pipe Works, and I'm perpetually on the lookout for a nice wooden "C" that plays precisely in tune.

[myles]

I have seen at least one fingering published for a cross-fingered high C natural. Never managed it though.

[An Draighean]

I have five chanters currently

Wow. I've only got the one, the one I've played since 1978.

The only "D" chanter; I need a "C" chanter fairly often, to play in C and F, at "legit" gigs. My "C" is an inexpensive one, in resin, keyless, by the Boston Uilleann Pipe Works, and I'm perpetually on the lookout for a nice wooden "C" that plays precisely in tune.

I have a C natural flat set, a B natural flat set (my current love), a concert pitch set, and two other D chanters - but I don't have your extensive collection of pipes from GHB and other traditions.

Both of my flat sets were made by Martin Preshaw. To me, they both play well in tune when the reed is in good shape; whether that is exacting enough for your "legit" gigs, I couldn't say Richard. He has studied a lot with David Quinn, if that makes a difference to you.

[Oldpiping]

Thanks for sharing your opinions!

I decided there will be no F natural key, so now I just have to figure it out if C key is realy so essential to me?!

Here's few more tunes I plan to learn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN8pWN-UQxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTgW4kH4OYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPiNt5miW_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwxga8udIio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KQTv8qvkE

I hope all of them can be played without keys???

Thanks again

[rorybbellows]

Here's few more tunes I plan to learn.

You must get yourself a copy of ancient voices by Mick O'Brien. Sounds like it could be your cup of tea.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-a ... 1106000760

RORY

[JR]

The chanter I learnt on was unkeyed, and I'd like to think this helped with regards to learning control and tone on the F natural but I do enjoy having a high C key for ease of use in the few tunes that require it.

Out of the three chanters I play regularly one is unkeyed, one is fully keyed, and one has C & F keys.

So not totally necessary for 99% of Irish tunes but if you are going to get a key I'd say get a C.

[myles]

Looking at it realistically the C key is essential if you're playing:

A tune in G major, that also goes up to the second octave C

A D mixolydian tune, that goes up to second octave C

An A minor tune, that goes up to the second octave C

The number of traditional tunes fitting the above criteria is very small.There are plenty of other keys you'd find C natural in, but you'd never be playing in them in the first place.

In particular, tune settings even in the above keys don't usually get up to the top end of the second octave - if it's simply a question of playing airs, the range of the melody isn't usually that big. These are mostly tunes people sang at some point. The exception is if someone sets a tune in a way that deliberately exploits that upper octave sound - in other words they start high anyway. The Ennis version of An raibh tu ag an gCarraig for example, which needs a C natural key I suppose.

I can't see that any of the things you posted would require C natural. But there's no harm having it.

[An Draighean]

In particular, tune settings even in the above keys don't usually get up to the top end of the second octave - if it's simply a question of playing airs, the range of the melody isn't usually that big. These are mostly tunes people sang at some point. The exception is if someone sets a tune in a way that deliberately exploits that upper octave sound - in other words they start high anyway. The Ennis version of An raibh tu ag an gCarraig for example, which needs a C natural key I suppose.

The Dear Irish Boy is another common slow air that needs the high C natural key, but I agree that there are not many that do.

[tommykleen]

Can't have too many keys! Well, at least on my D chanter, I use all 4 (F, G#,Bb, C). Sometimes I use that C for the lower octave too. Mind you, I play some World music, so the keys come in handy.

[brassnebony]

Keys are handy to have and I have 5 on my B chanter and 4 on my current D chanter.
The reality is that I only use the Fnat and high C nat keys for abour 2% of the tunes I play.

I have a chanter on order and have just put F / C keys. (I have added the blocks in case I want to add more keys later)

Keep in mind keys can be an absolute nuisance too....
1 - The more holes that are drilled in your chanter the more chance you have to have a leak which can be detrimental to chanter performance.
2 - You can easily catch a key on something and break the block from your chanter. I recommend you ask your maker to keep the lever close to the chanter as I noticed some makers keep quite a gap.

hope this helps