Proper Bellows technique

[tanash369]

I found this video https://youtu.be/fl0OObBWCe8 on YouTube showing bellows blowing (watch from 3.18 – 3.35). The problem is that in my case I have to count to 10 or 12 before I can do a stroke with bellows. If I do it every 4 or 5 seconds, then I can use only small tiny bit of bellows stroke. Mybe his chanter reed eats much more air than mine or he just have big bag and small bellows.
Originaly I read in one of the forums from a piper who owns Wooff full set that using full bellows strokes is the proper way!? Now, I am not complete begginer, but more I am doing elimination of some old bad habits as I am starting again after long years break. I know drones would solve this problem partly, but I plan to own only practice set for min. 5 years and want to do it in a proper way using full bellows stroke.
So I think that smaller bellows with same bag or bigger bag+smaller bellows would be one of the solutions for my problem? I use to think "bigger is better" for bellows, but I am starting to totaly doubt this theory, especialy for practice sets! I asked this question to 2 players, but they both changed the subject like they didn't have some good answer. Any expert out there? Thanks!

P.S. If I do count to 10 or 12 then a new question arise - how empty the bag can be - i.e. where is the point when new bellows stroke becomes a must?

[dyersituations]

I don't know if this is a common way to look at bag/bellows technique, but I was told in a lesson early on that you want to aim to keep the bag at about 80% capacity. Use the bellows as necessary to maintain that capacity with smooth strokes. In the lesson there was no emphasis on seconds per stroke. I've taken a couple "beginner" lessons from different pipers, and seconds per stroke was never mentioned.

A side note about waiting to get drones, I was recommended by multiple pipers/makers to get drones sooner than later. For reasons like you were talking about, getting used to providing consistent air pressure to the drones. Understandably it can be hard to purchase a half set in the beginning, and practice sets are still a great way to get started.

[ScottMaurer]

My teacher recommended I go ahead and get drones once I had gotten to the point where I had control of the bellows and bag with just the chanter and had learned a couple tunes. He told me it would help a lot with technique as I would learn to keep steadier air pressure and I could get the "complete" sound to get used to tuning and adjusting by ear. Once I got the drones reeds adjusted to a nice efficient and in tune setting he was absolutely right. it has helped a lot.

[Mr.Gumby]

you fill the bag to 80-ish % percent, when needed. That's all there's to it, using small bellows strokes is inefficient. If your set uses more air, leaks, full blast regulators or for whatever other reason, you'd pump more frequently, if you're on a practice set you may get through a whole part without a refill.

[tommykleen]

What works for me in keeping that bag topped off (hence the name of the tune Top it Off
is to use full bellows strokes. One pushes past that initial resistance phase of the stroke.

[tanash369]

Thank you for help. Yes, the drones would help, but I will have to wait. Meanwhile I have to do it properly with practice set only.

you fill the bag to 80-ish % percent, when needed.

It sounds easy in theory, but if I want to accomplish this in practice, I need to wait every time until the bag is exactly 1/2 empty.
So, mybe this works better with your flat sets, but with D chanter it becomes realy hard to blow with that empty bag!? Is this usual-normal scenario for practice sets with Rowsome style chanters?

if you're on a practice set you may get through a whole part without a refill

Is this for real? So the theory of many people "full bag all the time" is wrong?
Currently I play good Kelleher standard shape Bag and Bellows and I need 3 strokes to fill the bag from empty to 100% full.

Don't you think buying small efficiet bellows would be best solution for time without drones/Plus mybe changing from Kelleher standard shape to their bigger volume O'Briain shape bag ?


Thanks for patience with my math questions

[Mr.Gumby]

So, mybe this works better with your flat sets, but with D chanter it becomes realy hard to blow with that empty bag!?

It really shouldn't make much difference, one chanter wouldn't take much air so it isn't hard to keep going,

I have played through a whole part with the drones going with the bellows disconnected. Mind you the bag is now half my own age and really would need seasoning to keep all air in as it used to, so I probaly wouldn't be able to do so now on the flat set.

[PJ]

It's not a mathematical thing, so I don't think it's helpful to put numbers on it.

Also, it's not about the volume of air, but more about air pressure in the bag. If I feel I have squeezing too hard with my left elbow, I know it's time to pump the bellows. Usually this requires a little less than a full stroke of the bellows.

[dyersituations]

Usually this requires a little less than a full stroke of the bellows.

I find this as well, and I just keep in mind using as full and as smooth bellows strokes as I can.

And regarding flat chanters, I play regularly on D and B chanters. It seems that they both take about the same air, and I don't have to adjust my bellows technique, with differences in air pressure between different reeds.

[Murk]

It's not a mathematical thing, so I don't think it's helpful to put numbers on it.

Also, it's not about the volume of air, but more about air pressure in the bag. If I feel I have squeezing too hard with my left elbow, I know it's time to pump the bellows. Usually this requires a little less than a full stroke of the bellows.

This is my approach as well - less about the volume of air in the bag and more about balancing between pressure and force applied. If I'm applying too much force to gain the pressure I need, time to draw from the bellows. If I'm applying too little force with a lot of pressure present (usually signaled by a croaking back d), then it's time to back off the pumping.

[Mr.Gumby]

Pressure and amount of air are really two different issues.

The bellows supplies the air, the bag arm the pressure.

[An Draighean]

tanash369, get your drones ASAP. They will tell you if you are keeping steady pressure or not.

[rorybbellows]

Another habit worth forming is that when you are not actually pumping the bellows you should hold them in the open position,not the closed position as so many pipers do. Two reasons for this is that the bellows is full before you to start your stroke and the stroke is also shorter.

RORY

[tanash369]

Thanks for help!

What works for me in ? keeping that bag topped off ? (hence the name of the tune Top it Off is to use full bellows strokes. ? One pushes past that initial resistance phase of the stroke ?.

Can you explain this a bit more.

And back to original question: would smaller bellows help for practice set only?

[PJ]

I don't think a smaller bellows will help.

You might be fixating too much on bellows technique. Get on with learning tunes. Bellows technique will just happen when you stop thinking about it. It's a little like breathing when you sign. You might have to think about when you take a particularly deep breadth when you are learning a song, but once you have learned it and sang it a few times, you no longer have to think about when to adjust your breathing: you do it subconsciously.