air-leak detection

sarah · Post by **sarah** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:49 am

hello,
I have been trying to make my set air tight recently, and have found that some air is escaping from one of the seams of my bag (suedy-type stuff with glued leather seam), but am having real trouble trying to locate the other air leaks. I don't seem to have enough hands or a long enough neck to crane round listening for leaks! Has anyone got any tips for tracking down the source?
Also what glue could I use to stop up the small leak I have found?
Any help will be greatly appreciated thanks!

m coulter · Post by **m coulter** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:33 am

Hi Sarah,

Id suggest getting some liquid latex and flooding the bag a few times.
Works a treat..

MacEachain · Post by **MacEachain** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:10 pm

Hi Sarah,
I read this tip in SWAUP.org's downloadable book "Hints and tips for Uillean pipers". The idea might be offensive to you and if so I'll apologise in advance. Remove the bellows and chanter, plug the chanter stock and blow or have someone blow cigarette smoke into the bag, plug the blow pipe stock and squeeze the bag and watch for smoke escaping.

Cheers, Mac

edit to add- you can do the same for the bellows

[ This Message was edited by: MacEachain on 2003-02-21 15:11 ]

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:29 pm

As a Highland piper I've been successful in wetting the outside seam and rubbing in some ordinary liquid diswashing soap. When you fill the bag with air bubbles will appear instantly if you have any leaks. Regards, Jim

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:39 pm

Sarah,
How old is the bag?
Has it been treated before?
You mentioned a leak at the sewn seam, are they're any 'wear spots' or does the air seem to be escaping thru the pores?

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:55 am

Sarah.Liquid latex is fine but you have to make sure it doesn't stick together by using talc.A much simpler solution is to buy a tin of Hardies Airtight Bag Seasoning if you get in touch with them 24 Renfrew Street Glasgow they can tell you local supplier,it works a treat and you may as well do the bellows whilst your at it.Cost £6.50.
If you don't fancy getting lung cancer viz smokes you can apply a soapy water solution around the seam and squeeze the bag you will soon see it bubble up everywhere probably but don't worry thats the joy of having leather bags!!
Slan go foil
Liam

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:27 am

[quote]
A much simpler solution is to buy a tin of Hardies Airtight Bag Seasoning if you get in touch with them 24 Renfrew Street Glasgow they can tell you local supplier,it works a treat and you may as well do the bellows whilst your at it.Cost £6.50.
[End]

Don't put Airtight into a dry-blown bag. After a month or so it completely dries out and becomes very stiff, then begins to flake off the inside of the bag in fine little flecks that blow into your reeds and destroy them.

Sounds like you have a David Daye bag. I don't know what to tell you about the glued seam, if it leaks I think you really have to peel it apart and reglue it if you can. Other leaks can be traced to tie-in points at the chanter or blowpipe stocks. Those you retie.

If the bag is leather and glued-only, a particularly good seasoning to seal it with is made of 1 part vegetable shortening and 3 parts pure flax soap or in the US, Murphy's Oil Soap, the liquid variety. Just warm it for 30 seconds in a microwave till the shortening melts, mix it together, pull everything off the bag, cork up the blowpipe stock and the mainstock if you have one, and pout it into the neck of the bag--about a half a cup is all you should need. Slop and rub it around, then inflate the bag either through the blowpipe or just blow into the neck and hold it shut with your thumb.

You'll find and leaks, and if they're sewn-seam leaks they'll generally be sealed, as will a lot of bad-tie-in leaks.

Let it hang upside down to drain and dry out thoroughly before you play the pipes again, and wipe out the bores to make sure you've got any goo away from reeds.

The often recommended Neatsfoot Oil and sometimes beeswax seasonings can't be used ona glued bag because the oil will almost certainly eventually soften the glue and sometimes this happens very rapidly. You don't want an oil-based seasoning soaked into leather held together with oil-based glue.

Also should mention that you don't test pipes in playing position trying to crane around. Take them apart, test the bag and components separately. The bag, by blowing it up as above, and each fitting and pipe by sucking on one end and blocking the other where you can, like in the blowpipe.

You should also determine if the air you hear is just hissing from your chanter reed or one of your flapper valves. Hold your bellows supply hose shut and squeeze the bellows and listen at the intake valve and around the seams etc.

[ This Message was edited by: Royce on 2003-02-22 04:30 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Royce on 2003-02-22 04:36 ]

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 11:37 am

Royce it depends on the climate!!.Some say tomato others tomatoe.
We've had this all before on the board and some people use Hardies and others don't.

Sarah why don't you give Hardies a ring and ask them for their professional advice that way you will get it straight from the horses mouth.
PS their phone number is 0141 772 6600
Slan go foill
Uilliam
(I will give them a call myself on Monday and post their reply)

Edit:The Irish Bagpipes their construction and maintenance.Wilbert Garvin The Blackstaff Press Belfast.
Pag 8 Chapter 2
"If the bag is made of leather it will need to be dressed or seasoned to make it airtight.All sorts of weird and wonderful concoctions are reputed to have this or that property but Hardie's'Airtight' Scottish bagpipe seasoning has been found to be entirely satisfactory"
Now then there won't be much of a climate change between Ulster and SE England although I suppose someone will disagree.

[ This Message was edited by: uilliam on 2003-02-22 12:44 ]

[ This Message was edited by: uilliam on 2003-02-22 13:06 ]

John Mulhern · Post by **John Mulhern** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:09 pm

Welcome to the C & F Uilleann pipe forum, Royce!

magroibin · Post by **magroibin** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:51 pm

If you have leaks in an uilleann pipe bag I'd say stay away from Higland pipe bag seasoning altogether. It stinks and dries out and is a major pain. The best suggestion that I've heard is to use lanolin. It's simple, clean and should help the leather swell so as to seal off any leaks in the stitching. You can put it both inside the bag and on the outside seam. ood Luck.

bagpipeworks · Post by **bagpipeworks** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:50 pm

Sarah

If your having a real problem find those leaks, get a smoking friend, the tabaco kind and get them to blow into the bag with a lung full and you will soon see even the tiniest leaks, looks like its on fire.

Davy.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 4:41 pm

Sarah
Wilbert Garvin has been making pipes since 1978 and probably knows what he is talking about.If all of this seems confusing you could always switch to a vinyl bag!!
Slan go foill
Liam

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:41 pm

Wouldn't vegatable shortening tend to go rancid? I use a combo of honey, glycerine and scotch. Seems to do the trick.
Marc

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:55 pm

sounds more like something you would put on sore muscles.

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Sat Feb 22, 2003 6:43 pm

Only if you're kinky.

Marc