It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:11 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4930
Location: the Back of Beyond
RenaissanceGuy wrote:
"in the language of the Saxon." Saxon?? :o


The 'Saxon stranger' is a common image for the colonial forces. Not some strange invention by Ennis.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:24 am
Posts: 123
RenaissanceGuy wrote:
Some of Séamus's folkloric storytelling flourishes couldn't have been meant to take literally.
For example, there's a recording of him playing a couple jigs, including Port an Bráthair. He explains that the title means The Reverend Brother's Jig... "in the language of the Saxon." Saxon??
Almost literally, I think. In literary / intellectual circles anywhere in the British Isles, and more widely in Ireland itself, people would know exactly what Seamus meant by "Saxon" in this context..


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4930
Location: the Back of Beyond
Driftwood wrote:
Almost literally, I think. In literary / intellectual circles anywhere in the British Isles, and more widely in Ireland itself, people would know exactly what Seamus meant by "Saxon" in this context..


Alternatively, and related, you can hear 'Sassenach' used in the same context.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:45 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 12562
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
Mr.Gumby wrote:
RenaissanceGuy wrote:
"in the language of the Saxon." Saxon?? :o


The 'Saxon stranger' is a common image for the colonial forces. Not some strange invention by Ennis.

Plus, the English have always been described as Saxons - hence Scots 'sassenach' and Welsh 'seisnig' (or just plain 'seis').

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
Posts: 137
Location: US West Coast
Yes, exactly my point. The known history of that tune indicates a thoroughly Irish background. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly English about it, and certainly not in the language of that title... Unless there's some other hidden story that Ennis knew.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4930
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
The known history of that tune indicates a thoroughly Irish background.



The known history, a far as I know, if that Breathnach got it from John Potts and named it for Gildas, who had it before him. Which doesn't seem to suggest any further origin.

But Ennis was of ofcourse referring to the title in its English translation, in the language of the Saxon. I don't think there's more to it than that and it seems obvious enough to me.

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
Posts: 137
Location: US West Coast
Mr.Gumby wrote:

The known history, a far as I know, if that Breathnach got it from John Potts and named it for Gildas, who had it before him. Which doesn't seem to suggest any further origin.

But Ennis was of ofcourse referring to the title in its English translation, in the language of the Saxon. I don't think there's more to it than that and it seems obvious enough to me.

Thanks, that clarifies it. I was confused because I took the meaning in reverse... like how I might say something like "'Norman' means 'north man' in the language of the Franks" in my armchair history conversations.

Mr.Gumby wrote:
Quote:
An academic article by Lynnsey K. Weissenberger (who is also a fiddler and harpist) describes "truckly-how" as "the philosophical 'why' of the musical tradition."


I think calling this 'a poem' rather than something Séamus made up on the fly puts the writer on the wrong foot right from the start.


Academic writers do seem to over-complicate things by trying to fit everything into a more formal frame of reference.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
Posts: 137
Location: US West Coast
Incidentally, Colin Harper, co-author of the "Wheels of the World" book, uploaded a recording of the Ash Grove performance to Youtube earlier this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g8MPawKz4


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:49 pm
Posts: 715
Location: The woods
RenaissanceGuy wrote:
Incidentally, Colin Harper, co-author of the "Wheels of the World" book, uploaded a recording of the Ash Grove performance to Youtube earlier this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5g8MPawKz4



That’s the source where I quoted from, regarding the audience and Ennis.

Very neat stuff. Fun to listen to him sing “Ms. McGrath”

_________________
We musicians are enemies by disposition, so treat every musician you happen to meet, accordingly.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:49 pm
Posts: 123
Quote:
The owner of the Ash Grove had reckoned an unaccompanied Séamus might be too much for his audience, and asked Country Al to help out.

Is this true? I have a couple other recordings that feature the same guitarist, one in NY & the other Chicago. Where was the Ash Grove?

On the topic of Seamus' Story telling, I had always liked that intro to Feidhlim Tonn Ri about roofs being thatched with buttermilk & birds living in old men's beards. It seemed so whimsical, yet also stood out a bit from the rest of the story. A good intro to hook you in. Years later though I had heard a recording of Joe Heaney talking about story telling & he used the exact same lines. Perhaps he get it from Seamus, but I don't know if there's anyway to be certain who got what from who. I've also heard Joe tell the story of the sick dad with his three daughters, 'Did the Rum Do, Da?' Although Joe lilted a different tune with it. They also both seem to have claimed composing the English translation of 'Cunnla' & if I remember correctly, I believe i've heard both seem to disparage the other with regards, saying things like "and don't believe anyone saying any different." Seems funny considering they both seemed to remain as friends & were even recorded singing it together.

It made me think there probably always was a lot of taking from contemporaries, but with a reluctance to acknowledgement with many. You do hear how many of the older players, like Bernard Delaney (https://livesofthepipers.com/1delaneybarney.html) became stingy with their repertoire.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 am
Posts: 137
Location: US West Coast
chaos97 wrote:
.... Where was the Ash Grove?
...

It was in Los Angeles, big on the folk/blues/roots music scenes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 3:37 am
Posts: 778
Location: Germany, half an hour west of "Old Brunswick" (Braunschweig < Brunswieck)
The second story from that (double) LP:
https://sndup.net/934v

Does anybody have recordings of further Seamus-stories to post? I love them.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:12 am
Posts: 523
Location: centre France
Well,
of course there is 'Féidhm Tonn Ri's Castle' , perhaps only available on Vinyl ( Claddagh CC19) but a whole LP with the one long story and tunes in between who's titles are suggested by the story. I never hear people talk of this Seamus Ennis recording from 1977, perhaps it is not so significant to pipers.

My children loved this recording and my daughter has been looking for a CD or downloadable version to play to her children... I would be interested if anyone has a source.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:53 am
Posts: 580
Location: Burgdorf near Hanover, germany
You probably already know this record - he tells a little story to each of the songs and tunes:
https://www.discogs.com/Seamus-Ennis-Se ... er/1303431


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: truckleehowe
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 4930
Location: the Back of Beyond
Quote:
I never hear people talk of this Seamus Ennis recording from 1977, perhaps it is not so significant to pipers.


I think the Leader lp is one that is locked in in the Bulmer estate and was never re-issued. It's a lovely one though. I even have two copies. :wink:

'Do you want to play music to please yourself, or play music to please other people..' , now there's an issue to explore.

Interesting enough, looking at it now I realised the photo, by Rod Stradling, on the cover is from the same occasion as the one used for the Wandering Minstrel lp.

There are a fair few examples of Ennis going into stories going around on tapes. 'It's the hairy side out for tonight..' :D

_________________
My brain hurts

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.129s | 12 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)