Regulator key alignment?

[RobBBQ]

Hi all- I have noticed what seem to be important differences in regulator key alignment on several sets. I'm not sure that's what you call it, but for the sake of my own ignorance I call it either "fanned" or "straight" key alignment. Here is an image to compare what I mean (an sincere apologies if the photographers are upset by the use, I'll be happy to replace them with different examples if needed):



The set on the top has the fanned arrangement, the set on the bottom the straight arrangement. My guess is that the fanned arrangement is meant to be ergonomic, with in this example the playing wrist meant to be placed somewhat straight over the second row of keys from the stock (B-G-B in a modern concert set arrangement). Playing up at Cn-A-Cn would require the wrist to angle slightly towards the stock and playing low (A-F#-A, for instance) would require the wrist to angle slightly away, I suppose in-line with the fanning alignment of the key touches..?

Perhaps this has been covered elsewhere before, but I haven't noticed it specifically mentioned and I've been curious about it for awhile. Would any makers care to comment?

Cheers, Rob

[PJ]

Having keys "fanned" could be a way for pipers to have chords positioned specifically to suit their reach/posture, or their style (hitting individual keys or varying the chords).

Alternatively, it could be because someone has built a set from two or more sets of working regs, or (badly) fixed broken keys or blocks.

[geoff wooff]

Well, you have chosen one very old set with (probably) miss matched , replaced or wrongly reassembled keys to compare with a modern made set where the keys are aligned in the usually accepted manner.

It is difficult to draw an accurate conclusion from these images but perhaps there could be some benefit to a 'Fanned' arrangement if it could be viewed as a deliberate attempt to match the angle of the player's lower hand as it moves back and forth over the range of keys.

[rorybbellows]

When I get my ten grand I'm going to buy a new computer, those Ad's have done something strange to my old Toshiba.


RORY

[RobBBQ]

Many thanks for the replies PJ and Geoff. Yes, I suppose if its intentional it all could simply come down to custom fitting and/or allowing for easier reach for alternative chords. Here are some modern sets that also illustrate similar sorts of arrangements:







Again I don't mean to abuse rights of photographers, apologies in advance!

Rob

[billh]

Besides the 'fanning' possibility - related to the fact that the player's hand is not perpendicular to the keys in all playing positions - there are other factors in play.

One factor is that many modern makers place the C natural quite close to the B, i.e. further down the regulator, to reduce tuning issues. If the key shank is not made a fair bit longer the result will perturb the key field.

Another factor in some of the very old sets is that some classic makers (Coyne, in particular) seem to have made all of their 'short' regulator keys the same length. This works against nice even key touch alignment. Of course most of the old sets also have replacement keys or have had keys reassembled in the wrong positions, making matters worse.

More relevant perhaps is the ability to reach certain reg 'chords'/combinations such as A-D-f# or x-D-a; a maker may introduce a compromise in the key field to make these more ergonomic (as Rob suggests.)

[Hans-Joerg]

Most pre-famine sets (and Geoffs are precise remakes of these) had slightly conical mainstocks and the drones and the regs spread slightly. In order to match these "female" arrangements the bass-regulators´ separators needed a slight bend at its reg-seat (clearly to be seen in Geoff´s set) (the two pics above). The first one (one of the sets O´Mealy had owned ?) possibly had a straight bass-reg added later (it can be seen that the distance to the bari-reg is much shorter at the end than at the foot)

[billh]

Hans-Joerg is of course correct, but I believe the original poster meant omething else by the word "fan". He seems to have been referring to the curved path described by the ends of the regulator keys in each "rank".

[geoff wooff]

One thing I try to incorporate on the regulators :

Looking at the keys from the other plane ( view from the end caps up along the ranks of keys) ,sorry I do not have a photo to hand but I will try to find one if this description makes no sense.

I try to have the key touch heights of the middle regulator slightly above (higher up) those of the outer two regulators. This allows eaiser selection of notes with the heel of the hand. So one can play the notes on the Tennor and Baritone without touching the Bass or vice versa... or pick out notes on the Baritone only. It is not so difficult to select a key on either of the two outer regulators in a 'flat across' set up.
There are other advantages with this too and I try to physically have the middle regulator UP higher in the pack and mount the Bass slightly lower which gives a little more room for opening of the Bass keys, lifting the pads further from the note holes diminishes tendancies for those low notes to jump the octave.

In 38 years of Pipemaking nobody has ever asked me to make out of line keys as you have shown RobBBQ.

[PJ]

In 38 years of Pipemaking nobody has ever asked me to make out of line keys as you have shown RobBBQ.

Hey Geoff, can you make me a set with out of line keys?

[RobBBQ]

Thanks for the insight all! Bill- never crossed my mind that having the short keys the same length might almost automatically result in that sort of arrangement (looking again at the Froment set I suppose that could possibly be the case). I suppose I'd thought that if one was going to take the trouble to make the keys anyways one would be doing so with some sort of final playing-arrangement in mind. But I suppose that easing key production somewhat by making a number of the keys uniform in shape and length could also be a motivation if the resulting arrangement wasn't all so detrimental to the player. Still, if that's the case and at some stage more makers decided to put the key banks into straight rows I'd guess there must have been some thought or discussion as to why it was preferable. Perhaps we'll never really know for sure.

Anyways, it was something I'd noticed on a number of sets and I'd always wondered why keys were arranged that way.

Cheers, Rob

[geoff wooff]

In 38 years of Pipemaking nobody has ever asked me to make out of line keys as you have shown RobBBQ.

Hey Geoff, can you make me a set with out of line keys?

A fairly well known piper from Dublin, one time, asked me to extend one or two regulator keys on his set to make them easier to reach... cannot recall who made the set , but anyway I did what he asked, grafted (soldered) pieces of brass to his existing keys... spent the best part of a day doing this untill he was happy, whence he informed me he did not actually have any money on him and would pay me on friday.... I'm still waiting for friday, of course !

Does that answer your question PJ ?

[JR]

The first set has bass regulator by O'Mealy and the other two regulators are by Kenna. This could be why they don't quite match up.