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 Post subject: ABC Question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:33 pm 
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I am wondering how one would code the following in ABC in particular the word "Brisk". Couldn't figure out where it is covered in the ABC standards.

Image

X: 1
T: Tune to be played "Brisk"
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
K: G
????SE|G>AB g>ag|

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:59 pm 
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X:1
T:Tune to be played "Brisk"
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:G
"Brisk""'S.'"E|G>AB g>ag|

This is covered in section 4.19, Annotations. You can also control the font size and type by using format directives.

P.S. Are you sure that first note isn't supposed to be D?

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:37 pm 
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Not often I'd disagree with the Guru, but I think

X:1
T:Tune to be played "Brisk"
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:G
"^Brisk"!segno!E|G>AB g>ag|

would probably be better. I suspect the 'S.' is actually !segno! and that the original typesetting didn't have that available. Using the carat before the word "Brisk" indicates placing the remark above the notes and distinguishes the "Brisk" from any chord names in the music in two ways: 1) It will ignore "Brisk" if playing back the chords in a midi program and 2) It places the word "Brisk" in a different text font and style from the chords so that it can be better distinguished.


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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:33 am 
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No real disagreement, Chuck. Sure, if the 'S.' is supposed to be a segno, then use !segno! or +segno+. What I gave reproduces the original MS without interpreting intent.

Yes, the caret will keep the text from being interpreted as a chord for playback (or b's as flats for printing, not a problem here). But I'm not aware it automatically affects the font - it doesn't in my abcm2ps. For that you need to either 1. specify different %%gchordfont and %%annotationfont directives, or 2. use the $n font specifiers in the text string, along with corresponding %%setfont-n directives. No?

Honestly, I almost never use MIDI playback, except for occasional proofing. So I'll admit I seldom think about handling it. Did you know that MIDI is an acronym for "Musically Idiotic Despicable Interpretation"? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:24 am 
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The Annotations section was a help. Use of the ^ doesn't seem to be necessary to get it to render properly in the ABC Convert-A-Matic. Mostly, I am just trying to be consistent and transcribe this into an ABC that can be consistently rendered in programs into sheet music. I have already had to make judgement calls, and accept a certain amount of interpretation is necessary.

MTGuru wrote:
P.S. Are you sure that first note isn't supposed to be D?

It was a judgment call from what I had seen previously, and my music theory isn't quite up to being to immediately spot what fits. To me it didn't seem to fit in the tune well so I just threw in an E until I transcribed the rest. Seeing as the repeat ends on a G arpeggio*, it is most likely suppose to be a D.

So this is what I have.

Image

X: 1
T: We'll A' to Kelso Go
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
K: G
"Brisk"SD|G>AB g>ag|+trill+f>ed g2d|e/2f/2ge dBG|A>BA c>de|G>AB g>ab|afdg2d|e/2f/2ge dBA|B3g2:|
|:Sg/2a/2|bgb afa|geg dBd|(G>AB) gdB|AaA c>de|G>AB gag|afdg2d|e/2f/2ge dBA|B3g2:|

If you look at the "S" it isn't "S." it looks to be ":S:". In the introduction he mentions that ":S:" is used in repeats, a Dal Segno.

So is there a reason to use +segno+ or !segno! rather than just S? Because, I'm really lazy. (Although to be consistent with the way I have been using +trill+ I may want to start using +segno+)

*Or what ever you'd call it, like I said my music theory isn't great.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:59 am 
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I.D.10-t wrote:
If you look at the "S" it isn't "S." it looks to be ":S:". In the introduction he mentions that ":S:" is used in repeats, a Dal Segno.

Ah, then Chuck's interpretation is correct. And your lazy S should be fine, since that is a default assignment according to the Standard.

I.D.10-t wrote:
arpeggio ... Or what ever you'd call it, like I said my music theory isn't great.

Not an arpeggio, but certainly a broken G chord if you take the last 3 beats of each cadence: dBA|B3 g2| = dB(A)Bg = G chord with a neighbor A. Which does suggest a D pickup instead of E.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:30 pm 
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MTGuru wrote:
...broken G chord...

That seems to be a better term. Sometimes I have to wonder about some of the markings. The Dal Segno seems redundant, especially on the second line.

Now I have to brush up on two voice ABCs and typing in the right notes for a bass clef. FGABCDEfg...

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:43 pm 
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I.D.10-t wrote:
Sometimes I have to wonder about some of the markings. The Dal Segno seems redundant, especially on the second line.

Yep, a different notational standard at work here. I'm guessing that because of the pick-ups and partial last bars, the writer felt the need to be explicit about including the pick-ups in the repeats.

What's the date on this? Early 19th century?

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:18 pm 
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It's from Henry Beck's Flute Book 1786.

Been scraping away at it for a while. When something comes up, or I get frustrated with it, it gets shelved for a couple of months.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:10 am 
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MTGuru wrote:
No real disagreement, Chuck. Sure, if the 'S.' is supposed to be a segno, then use !segno! or +segno+. What I gave reproduces the original MS without interpreting intent.

Yes, the caret will keep the text from being interpreted as a chord for playback (or b's as flats for printing, not a problem here). But I'm not aware it automatically affects the font - it doesn't in my abcm2ps. For that you need to either 1. specify different %%gchordfont and %%annotationfont directives, or 2. use the $n font specifiers in the text string, along with corresponding %%setfont-n directives. No?

Honestly, I almost never use MIDI playback, except for occasional proofing. So I'll admit I seldom think about handling it. Did you know that MIDI is an acronym for "Musically Idiotic Despicable Interpretation"? :lol:


Segno: After looking at the "full" copy I'm sure the sign is a segno, but I'm equally sure that it is improperly used according to contemporary usage. Apparently the creator of that book used the mark as an aid to the eye in spotting where to return to. I suppose that is legitimate enough, but is certainly not the usage today. I'd be inclined to leave it out entirely

The carat: You are right that you may have to specify different font directives to get the different fonts for chords and annotations. I either left that out because I thought it was more information than needed or because is was careless. Your call :lol:

MIDI: A great acronym, and one I generally agree with, but since some folks do use it why not keep the abc clean. BTW there is now stress programming available in abc2midi which goes a long way toward making it more useful. Still YMMV.


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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:54 am 
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If all I wanted to do was edit the book I would probably do things differently, but I would like to preserve as much of the original markings as possible. I have made some judgement calls but try to keep it to a minimum. I wish I knew how to reproduce the w at the end of some lines, the 4 lines at the end of the tune (or knew why he used them) and some other oddities. I kind of like the notational quirks and think they kind of add to the document and removing them feels like sterilizing it. Later it will be a simple task to strip it down purely for its musical content.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:48 am 
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The problem with segnos in ABC is that there is no standard for them that player programs can use. It doesn't make sense to use notation which only dictates the generated notation when it significantly affects the way the tune sounds. (Gonzato introduced a lot of that crap in his "ABC Plus" proposal).

I would either write out the repeated section or use the "P:" construct. Like this:

Code:
X:1
T:We'll A' to Kelso Go
C:ABA
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=120 "  Brisk"
P:ABA
K:G
P:A
|: D   |G>AB g>ag|Tf>ed g2d| e/f/ge dBG|A>BA c>de|
        G>AB g>ab| afd  g2d| e/f/ge dBA|B3   g2 :|
P:B
|: g/a/|bgb  afa | geg  dBd|(G>AB)  gdB|AaA  c>de|
        G>AB gag |afd   g2d| e/f/ge dBA|B3   g2 :|


The space before "Brisk" is needed by both BarFly and abcm2ps to stop the word colliding with other stuff. BarFly doesn't print the part order unless you fool it, so I put it in the composer field.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:53 am 
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JackCampin wrote:
The problem with segnos in ABC is that there is no standard for them that player programs can use. It doesn't make sense to use notation which only dictates the generated notation when it significantly affects the way the tune sounds. (Gonzato introduced a lot of that crap in his "ABC Plus" proposal).
That's the great thing about standards, there are so many to choose from!

Now it looks like there is an update The abc music standard 2.1. Wonder what's different.

I guess the best I can do for now is to be consistent so that any changes can be made with a replace function in Word. The program I was using to look at how the code was rendered was ABCJ, but it seems to be corrupted now so I have been using concertina.net's ABC Convert-A-Matic. No doubt that if I ever want to convert the project to an HTML or PDF document, I'll have to make changes.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:08 pm 
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I.D.10-t wrote:
Now it looks like there is an update The abc music standard 2.1. Wonder what's different.

Interesting. v2.0 was around forever, as a draft that wasn't a draft.

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 Post subject: Re: ABC Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:27 pm 
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I.D.10-t wrote:
If all I wanted to do was edit the book I would probably do things differently, but I would like to preserve as much of the original markings as possible. I have made some judgement calls but try to keep it to a minimum. I wish I knew how to reproduce the w at the end of some lines, the 4 lines at the end of the tune (or knew why he used them) and some other oddities. I kind of like the notational quirks and think they kind of add to the document and removing them feels like sterilizing it. Later it will be a simple task to strip it down purely for its musical content.


Here's my guess on some of the markings and the reason for them.

1) the segno is probably used to help the eye spot the start of sections of tunes. In older, and particularly handwritten collections I've seen that before. They don't really affect the playing I don't think, though I'd need to see a tune I knew to be sure of that.

2) what looks like a "w" at the end of lines is probably a marker for what note is to be played at the start of the following line. At least this is quite common. Once I knew why that particular symbol, but alas the knowledge has been erased from memory.

3) The extra dark lines at the end of a tune are probably a marker of the end of a tune. Often in manuscript books the writer will save space be starting a new tune on the same line of staff paper, and the dark marks make it easy for the player to stop reading forward through the tune and jump back to the start (the previous set of dark lines).

Again, these thoughts are based on what I've seen in other manuscripts and might be wrong here. But, of course, I don't think so :P


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