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 Post subject: Flutini
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:59 am 
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Some little time ago, Terry McGee and Graeme Roxburgh put together a system for analyzing the tuning of instruments as they're playing music:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=59254

That system involves using a couple of different programs in sequence. I've distilled it down to one program called Flutini which is less flexible but easier to use and can show your tuning live as you play. It is free and open source and available here:

http://www.novasession.org/Flutini/

That page has a better description, screenshots and a tutorial if you are interested. (The program is only available for Windows. If someone is interested in doing a port to the Mac and/or Linux, let me know.)

Enjoy!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:04 am 
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Fascinating, and I can't wait to try it! But notes are not binary switches, with only on and off values. There are different types of transitional tones, slides, taps, crans, etc... Wouldn't these skew the values, and be recognized as off-pitch notes? :-?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:06 am 
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There are actually people who still use Windows? :boggle:


Loren


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:10 am 
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crookedtune wrote:
There are different types of transitional tones, slides, taps, crans, etc... Wouldn't these skew the values, and be recognized as off-pitch notes?


Flutini is based on Philip McLeod's dissertation work at University of Otago, NZ, and much of what he did was to address the problem of note identification in messy real music. On top of that, Flutini does a number of things to eliminate transitional notes, etc. It filters out muddy notes, notes that only appear a few times, notes that have low volume and so on. And Flutini reports the average for a note based on many samples, so unless you're doing lots of long slides, the average should not be greatly affected. (Taps, crans, rolls, etc., aren't a big problem -- the computer can listen and process much faster than your fingers can move! :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:57 am 
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Loren wrote:
There are actually people who still use Windows? :boggle:


Loren


Idealists, Traditionalists..and wishful thinkers like myself.... :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:07 am 
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Jack Bradshaw wrote:
Idealists, Traditionalists..and wishful thinkers like myself.... :oops:


I can see th latter two but.....Idealists?? :really: We tend more towards OSX and Linux I should think.

Certainly wishful thinking that Windows will ever get Vista right.

Somebody please get Flutini together for those of us who use Macs.

What I REALLY want is an iphone app that will allow you to record audio (lessons, sessions, workshops etc.) on the iphone, along with a slow downer/note and tuning analyzer program. The SDK is out there, and the apple app store will sell it for you, anyone?


Loren


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Loren wrote:
Somebody please get Flutini together for those of us who use Macs.


Well, if you'll buy me a Mac... :-) It shouldn't be too hard a port, since Tartini runs on the Mac.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Scott ... This is very, very neat! Thumbs way up. :thumbsup:

I love the way you can adjust your real-time intonation as you play to reduce the horizontal bars to zero. Great for ear training to the quirks of a particular instrument.

Will there be a way to:

o Set the reference pitch to other than A440?

o Set a different temperament and/or custom intonation?

Many thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Cool, eh? Well done, Scott.

So now, flute players, makers and repairers, there are no excuses not to get into RTTA at the level that meets your needs. Mac owners can still use the Polygraph while we wait for someone to port Flutini for them.

If you haven't tried RTTA yet, Flutini offers a very easy start and may well meet all your needs. If not, it's then very easy to add the extra bits needed for the Polygraph. Give it a go!

And if you've fallen behind on the whole RTTA story, start off at:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/RTTA.htm

for the background story, and you'll find links to both available systems there.

Terry


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:13 pm 
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MTGuru wrote:
o Set the reference pitch to other than A440?
o Set a different temperament and/or custom intonation?


Who would want to do that? :-)

Actually, I've already had another request to support A415 for baroque flutes. I don't think changing the reference pitch is terribly difficult, so I'll have a look at it. Changing the temperament is a little trickier (because, I have to admit, that I'm a lazy programmer).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:38 pm 
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srt19170 wrote:
(because, I have to admit, that I'm a lazy programmer).

all the good ones are :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:53 pm 
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srt19170 wrote:
Actually, I've already had another request to support A415 for baroque flutes. I don't think changing the reference pitch is terribly difficult, so I'll have a look at it. Changing the temperament is a little trickier (because, I have to admit, that I'm a lazy programmer).


If you are going to change the ref pitch, can you make it from 390Hz (old French Pitch) to about 460Hz (above British High Pitch). That should take care of all comers.

Is a possibility for the temperament to replace the vertical 0 line with a bent and twisted goalpost? That would show the response against the selected temperament and in relation to equal temperament at the same time.

Terry


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:24 am 
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Terry McGee wrote:
If you are going to change the ref pitch, can you make it from 390Hz (old French Pitch) to about 460Hz (above British High Pitch). That should take care of all comers.


I'll likely make it 400-500 or something like that. I think this just shifts the whole scale a linear amount (I'll check Graeme's code to be sure, since I assume he knows what he's doing :-) ) so there's no big deal to do any amount of offset.

Quote:
Is a possibility for the temperament to replace the vertical 0 line with a bent and twisted goalpost? That would show the response against the selected temperament and in relation to equal temperament at the same time.


:boggle:

Uh, let me think about that one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:52 pm 
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srt19170 wrote:
I'll likely make it 400-500 or something like that. I think this just shifts the whole scale a linear amount (I'll check Graeme's code to be sure, since I assume he knows what he's doing :-) ) so there's no big deal to do any amount of offset.


Hi Scott
It's a log scale not linear (log2(pitch/440)*12.00) so pitch at 220 or at 880 will move it 12 semitones. You should be able to do this on the fly easily enough.

Let the user choose any pitch from 220 to 880 and they can use this to give the nominal fingered note for a transposing instrument like a Bb Irish flute F fife Eb whistle etc. This is how Polygraph v 2 is doing it although in v3 you'll be able to enter the key of the instrument rather than needing to know the pitch in Hz

Cheers
Graeme


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:47 pm 
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If you can make it down to 390, try to do so, or we'll all be deafened by the whimperings from the serious early music set. Not the wuzzy 415 "baroque pitch" lot (heh heh), but the people who actually play accurate copies of flutes by Hotteterre, Chevalier etc that were pitched below 400Hz.

Terry


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