It is currently Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:06 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Forum rules


The purpose of this forum is to provide a place for people who are interested in the Irish language and various Celtic languages to discuss them, to practice them, and to share information about them, particularly (but not exclusively) in the context of traditional music and culture.

This is not a "translation forum," per se, though translation requests may occasionally be honored at the discretion of the moderators. If you're seeking a one-time translation for something like a tattoo, engraving, wedding vow, or other such purpose, we strongly recommend that you visit our friends at ILF: http://irishlearner.awyr.com



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:36 pm
Posts: 44
Can anyone recommend a Gaelic/English Dictionary? I'd like to be able to pronounce and know the definition of many of the tunes I'm playing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 18663
Location: San Diego, CA
You might want to specify Irish or Scottish Gaelic for best results. :-)

_________________
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips

Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 6051
Location: Somewhere in the Western Hemisphere
MTGuru wrote:
You might want to specify Irish or Scottish Gaelic for best results. :-)


Yep. Usually, when the word "Gaelic" is used on its own, Scottish Gaelic is what is meant. Irish Gaelic is typically referred to simply as "Irish." It's an important distinction when you're looking for resources, as the two are, in fact, separate languages (closely related, but separate. Think Spanish and Portuguese), and if you buy something for "Gaelic," it's Scottish Gaelic you'll get.

I have to say, though, that a dictionary won't help much when it comes to pronouncing and understanding tune names, at least with Irish. It's a highly inflected language, so words change, sometimes significantly, in relation to other words. If you don't know the root form of an inflected word, you won't be able to look it up.

Another factor is that Irish idioms are very different from English. Even if you translate all the words, you might mis-translate the phrase. To see how easily this can happen, consider the much over-used "Irish Blessing." The English version usually starts with something along the lines of "May the road rise with you" or "May the road rise to meet you." This is actually a mis-translation of the Irish idiom "Éirigh le." If you translate the words separately, you get "rise with." In Irish, however, when the verb éirigh" is combined with the preposition "le," its meaning changes, and it becomes "succeed." The entire first line actually means "good luck on your journey."

Finally, re pronunciation, most Irish dictionaries don't offer pronunciations, because they can vary significantly among dialects. For example, an Ulster speaker would pronounce the word "féin" (self) as "hayn," whereas a Munster speaker would say "fayn."

If you like, you can just post the tune names here, and I can give you the translation and a rough phonetic guide.

That said, a good basic Irish dictionary is Foclóir Scoile, from An Gúm. It does offer IPA renderings, but they're only a rough guideline. You'd have to order it from Ireland. If you're actually interested in learning the language, however, I strongly recommend getting Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla by Niall Ó Dónaill for Irish to English, and "English-Irish Dictionary" by de Bhaldraithe for English to Irish. They're the gold standard reference dictionaries for the language.

You can also check out this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=68572

Which contains a basic pronunciation guide I put together for my students. It's based on Ulster pronunciation.

Redwolf

_________________
...agus déanfaidh mé do mholadh ar an gcruit a Dhia, a Dhia liom!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:36 pm
Posts: 44
Thanks, Redwolf. I obviously had to idea how complex the Irish language is. I looked at your guide and feel that it will work for me better than any dictionary. I appreciate it. -Maureen


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 6051
Location: Somewhere in the Western Hemisphere
sfwhistle wrote:
Thanks, Redwolf. I obviously had to idea how complex the Irish language is. I looked at your guide and feel that it will work for me better than any dictionary. I appreciate it. -Maureen


Do feel free to post tune names you want translated here. If I or someone else here can't work them out, I know others who can.

Redwolf

_________________
...agus déanfaidh mé do mholadh ar an gcruit a Dhia, a Dhia liom!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 6:00 pm
Posts: 6051
Location: Somewhere in the Western Hemisphere
sfwhistle wrote:
Thanks, Redwolf. I obviously had to idea how complex the Irish language is. I looked at your guide and feel that it will work for me better than any dictionary. I appreciate it. -Maureen


Just have to add that it's no worse than any other language. Doing any kind of translation using a dictionary, with no understanding of the grammar of the language, is pretty much doomed to failure.

Redwolf

_________________
...agus déanfaidh mé do mholadh ar an gcruit a Dhia, a Dhia liom!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 18663
Location: San Diego, CA
It won't help you with the pronunciation ... But often you can look up the Irish or Gaelic tune title in the Fiddler's Companion, and find the English in the notes or cross-references.

http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/

_________________
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips

Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.109s | 13 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)