Chiff and Fipple Forums

Good evening all,

I know very little of the wonderful wind instruments you clever lot are so well-versed in, but have one in my possession which I hope someone may be able to help me get to know a little better.

It appears to be a flute of some description, made by Charles Mathieu of Paris, whom I'm led to believe was operating sometime around 1900. It may be made of pewter. I have seen Charles Mathieu mentioned on this forum in other places, but haven't seen anything my him that resembles my piece.

Asides from this, I know nothing about it. Any advice as to a better description of it, or somewhere I could find more information? Also, an indication as to value would be nice.

All the best,
Danny

Hi Danny ... Does it make any sound as-is? What does the narrow end look like? Is there a whistle-like fipple to blow into? Or is there a single hole that looks like it might accommodate an oboe-type double reed?

I'm guessing the latter, and that it's an unkeyed Valencian-style dolçaina/xirimita. Nowadays you can find beginner instruments in plastic, but metal would have been common back in the day.

My own first reaction was along similar lines as Mt's, something double reeded, possibly a bombarde like instrument.

Mathieu & co made a range of (mainly) metal instruments, I have seen walking stick flute/whistles and other strange contraptions listed in museum collections. A bit of googling will bring them up along with some info on the company.

They made whistles as well, both cylindrical and conical ones (a bit of a quickie, just as it is getting dark, but you'll get the idea):

Many thanks for your replies so far - I will have to look up the xirimita - initial peeks do bear a resemblance.

There is just a single hole at the top that looks as if it would accommodate a reed - a musician friend of mine had already suggested this theory, too.

Are these instruments of any significant value?

Thanks again for your advice, every little piece is appreciated!

Danny

There was someone looking for old French whistles recently on the Instrument exchange.

Price is really depending on what someone is willing to pay. Don't get your expectations up.

Here are vids of people playing what seem to be metal Breton-style bombardes similar to yours:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_WPgZWTXt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwqdN9A00u8

Obviously, bombarde, dolçaina, gralla, xirimita etc. are all closely related equivalents in their respective musics. But I suppose bombarde may be more likely from a Parisian maker.

To make it playable, finding an appropriate reed may be a challenge. Here's a fellow who claims that a plastic GHB chanter reed may do the trick:

http://www.mochpryderi.com/Bombarde.html
http://www.hotpipes.com/clanrye.html

Be prepared to blow pretty hard.

As for value, the modern plastic equivalent may give some idea. As Mr. G says, yours may have some added vintage value, but perhaps not much. Valencian maker Paco Bessó offers plastic dolçainas/grallas starting at €40-50, and reeds for €10.

Here's a page of basic bombarde info: http://texcelt.org/BombardeFAQ.html

[ Mod Note: Moving/linking this thread to the World/Folk winds forum, so more knowledgeable people may chime in. ]

I believe it might be a musette, a French reed instrument, usually made of wood; not to be confused with the musette du cour, which is a bagpipe. It is sometimes called an oboe musette, piccolo oboe or piccaloboe and can be fully keyed, partially keyed or key-less. They can be played with an oboe reed that has had about 1/3 of the cork length of the reed sawed off and the cork diameter sanded down to fit the reed socket. I have a key-less wooden one.

I would place a value of about $100 US, maybe less on it. I bought my beautiful wooden one for $100. It is worth what someone is willing to pay.

Interesting, Ted. Does the oboe-musette have a thumb hole that might distinguish it from a bombarde? Is your bell flared or rounded?

I guess the date of the OP's instrument likely does correspond to the heyday of fin de siècle Parisian bal musette still played on musettes, before it transitioned to accordions.

It does have a thumb-hole and is no relation to the bombarde. You are correct as to its' former use. It is more in the oboe family and plays somewhere around E or F. Mine can play in F based on A440, which was not a standard when these were made. Mine has a flared bore, but rounded on the outside. I have seen others with the flared shape. Nothing Spanish or Breton about it.

Ted wrote:It does have a thumb-hole

Ah, so. We can't see the back of the instrument in the photo. But that should give the OP a way to distinguish the two.

The other feature is that the taper of the bore of the instrument in the photo is obviously more slender than a bombarde, or a gralla. It is a soprano oboe.The musette has been made by Loree with full conservatory key-work. It is analogous to an Eb clarinet, rare, but not unknown. I don't know of any literature written for it, but it is classed as an orchestral instrument in the oboe family. Its' main use, as has been pointed out, has been as a folk instrument, usually with few or no keys.