Tilincă
- I.D.10-t
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Tilincă
Yet Another Overtone Flute.
Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.
Tilincă / Pipe song
Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.
Tilincă / Pipe song
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."
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Re: Tilincă
Both types do exist.
The hungarian version of the instrument (tilinkó, also played by the csángó minority in Romania) seems to invariably have a fipple.
Dumitru Zamfira used to play a side-blown version of the instrument which I guess was in fact a seljefloyte he picked up during his travels with various orchestras (like a tin whistle he brought back, which was then declared to be a "fluier specially made from brass, for highest brilliance and precision" on a record cover).
The hungarian version of the instrument (tilinkó, also played by the csángó minority in Romania) seems to invariably have a fipple.
Dumitru Zamfira used to play a side-blown version of the instrument which I guess was in fact a seljefloyte he picked up during his travels with various orchestras (like a tin whistle he brought back, which was then declared to be a "fluier specially made from brass, for highest brilliance and precision" on a record cover).
- Corgicrazed
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Re: Tilincă
Wow. I like that.
"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."
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- hans
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Re: Tilincă
None of the photos in that video depicts a tilinka. They are mostly kavals (Moldavian kavals with five finger holes).I.D.10-t wrote:Yet Another Overtone Flute.
Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.
Tilincă / Pipe song
Here is a demo of a Moldavian tilinkó (play starts at ca 40sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYlB8pOb_5c
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfgzbBpXqwU
- JackCampin
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Re: Tilincă
This shows the technique quite well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63tFynMBIes
Hans, do you know Lindsay Porteous? He probably has more practical experience with these than anybody else in Scotland. He makes them by sticking a whistle mouthpiece (Generation B flat or similar) on the end of a piece of ski pole. He often plays two at once, I'm not sure where he got that technique from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63tFynMBIes
Hans, do you know Lindsay Porteous? He probably has more practical experience with these than anybody else in Scotland. He makes them by sticking a whistle mouthpiece (Generation B flat or similar) on the end of a piece of ski pole. He often plays two at once, I'm not sure where he got that technique from.
- hans
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Re: Tilincă
Jack, I have not met Lindsay Porteous. Using ski poles sounds good!
I've made my own overtone whistle using a plastic head of a C or mellow (wide bore) D whistle, which fits just fine over a 9/16" brass tube (K&S 9/16" x .014). I use two of these 12" long tubes cello-taped end-to-end together, which produces a slightly sharp C whistle. Get a K&S 19/32" x .014 to make a joint/slide to fit over the tubes, or extend the tube further. This can work as a slide overtone whistle as well!
Do you own a tilinkó and can tell me the internal diameter and length?
Or those measurements for a Moldavian kaval?
I am curious about the length to bore ratio of these instruments.
The Moldavian A whistle I've seen on videos seems also to be a rather narrow bore instrument, so good for overtones and higher registers.
I've made my own overtone whistle using a plastic head of a C or mellow (wide bore) D whistle, which fits just fine over a 9/16" brass tube (K&S 9/16" x .014). I use two of these 12" long tubes cello-taped end-to-end together, which produces a slightly sharp C whistle. Get a K&S 19/32" x .014 to make a joint/slide to fit over the tubes, or extend the tube further. This can work as a slide overtone whistle as well!
Do you own a tilinkó and can tell me the internal diameter and length?
Or those measurements for a Moldavian kaval?
I am curious about the length to bore ratio of these instruments.
The Moldavian A whistle I've seen on videos seems also to be a rather narrow bore instrument, so good for overtones and higher registers.
- JackCampin
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Re: Tilincă
I don't have a tilinko. Yes they are narrow bore.
I measured my Moldavian A kaval for Francis de Villiers here when he asked a few weeks ago. This is the email I sent him:
Moldvai kaval in A, one-piece elder, by Feri Szegercz from Georgheni, Romania
Note the labium is on the LOWER side
overall length: 74.5 cm
ext dia: 26mm
bore not very circular (done with 2 augers)
int dia at bottom end: 16.2-16.9mm
dia of block: 17.9mm
length of block: 21.9mm
area cut off block for windway: 1.12cm at mouth end, 0.7cm at labium end
about 1mm of chamfer at the windway end
voicing opening: 0.65cm long, 0.55cm wide,
labium length: 2.0cm
wall thickness at labium: 0.52cm one side, 0.47cm the other
labium very slightly curved concentrically with the bore and slightly concave longitudinally, maybe 0.5mm each way
fingerhole centres from bottom:
12.1cm
14.8cm
24.4cm
28.3cm
31.6cm
fingerholes all 0.77cm long and 0.64cm wide except for the bottom one, about 1mm smaller all round
I measured my Moldavian A kaval for Francis de Villiers here when he asked a few weeks ago. This is the email I sent him:
Moldvai kaval in A, one-piece elder, by Feri Szegercz from Georgheni, Romania
Note the labium is on the LOWER side
overall length: 74.5 cm
ext dia: 26mm
bore not very circular (done with 2 augers)
int dia at bottom end: 16.2-16.9mm
dia of block: 17.9mm
length of block: 21.9mm
area cut off block for windway: 1.12cm at mouth end, 0.7cm at labium end
about 1mm of chamfer at the windway end
voicing opening: 0.65cm long, 0.55cm wide,
labium length: 2.0cm
wall thickness at labium: 0.52cm one side, 0.47cm the other
labium very slightly curved concentrically with the bore and slightly concave longitudinally, maybe 0.5mm each way
fingerhole centres from bottom:
12.1cm
14.8cm
24.4cm
28.3cm
31.6cm
fingerholes all 0.77cm long and 0.64cm wide except for the bottom one, about 1mm smaller all round
- I.D.10-t
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Re: Tilincă
I could have found a better video. I ignored the photos and was listening more to the tune.hans wrote:None of the photos in that video depicts a tilinka. They are mostly kavals (Moldavian kavals with five finger holes).I.D.10-t wrote:Yet Another Overtone Flute.
Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.
Tilincă / Pipe song
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."
- hans
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Re: Tilincă
Yes, the tune was lovely!
I just wanted to point out the discrepancy, in case someone was associating the flute pics with the tune played.
Jack, thanks for all the detailed info! It seems it is even narrower bore than I thought, over 40 for length-to-bore ratio, double that of a normal whistle. That will be a tricky first octave!
I just wanted to point out the discrepancy, in case someone was associating the flute pics with the tune played.
Jack, thanks for all the detailed info! It seems it is even narrower bore than I thought, over 40 for length-to-bore ratio, double that of a normal whistle. That will be a tricky first octave!
- cadancer
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Re: Tilincă
Both of the instruments in the videos appear to have fipples. I had a friend that played an end-blown one... just an open pipe.hans wrote:None of the photos in that video depicts a tilinka. They are mostly kavals (Moldavian kavals with five finger holes).I.D.10-t wrote:Yet Another Overtone Flute.
Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.
Tilincă / Pipe song
Here is a demo of a Moldavian tilinkó (play starts at ca 40sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYlB8pOb_5c
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfgzbBpXqwU
I occasionally play one of his tunes on the top section of my kaval. Cool tune.
...john
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Re: Tilincă
Here are a few Hungarian Tilinko that I picked up last month on a trip to Budapest. They are both pitched in C.
Some info and measurements.
The blond colored one with the metal band and lathe turned decorations. It was made by Antal Szabo.
It is a hardwood, but I am unsure exactly what. The other flutes I have from this maker are made from plum, but this doesn't look like plum to me.
25 5/16 inches overall length
24 3/8 inches from ramp to the end of the flute.
.585 inch bore diameter
.335 inch windway width
This one has a very pure flute like sound. The lower end is easy to play, but anything above the 7th partial is a challenge. It is more difficult to switch partials, but once you hit the note, they are more stable.
The other one is made of a softwood and stained a dark brown. Unsure of wood or maker.
25 15/16 inches overall length
24 3/4 inches from ramp to the end of the flute
.505 inch bore diameter
.335 inch windway width
This one has a far "chiffier" sound with more color. It is easier to play overall and I can easily play to the 9th partial and with some effort to the 11th. It is more responsive to subtle changes in breath pressure, but as a result the notes themselves are more unstable and the low end is quite difficult to play.
I would say the sweet spot for bore sizes/length probably lies in between the two.
Some info and measurements.
The blond colored one with the metal band and lathe turned decorations. It was made by Antal Szabo.
It is a hardwood, but I am unsure exactly what. The other flutes I have from this maker are made from plum, but this doesn't look like plum to me.
25 5/16 inches overall length
24 3/8 inches from ramp to the end of the flute.
.585 inch bore diameter
.335 inch windway width
This one has a very pure flute like sound. The lower end is easy to play, but anything above the 7th partial is a challenge. It is more difficult to switch partials, but once you hit the note, they are more stable.
The other one is made of a softwood and stained a dark brown. Unsure of wood or maker.
25 15/16 inches overall length
24 3/4 inches from ramp to the end of the flute
.505 inch bore diameter
.335 inch windway width
This one has a far "chiffier" sound with more color. It is easier to play overall and I can easily play to the 9th partial and with some effort to the 11th. It is more responsive to subtle changes in breath pressure, but as a result the notes themselves are more unstable and the low end is quite difficult to play.
I would say the sweet spot for bore sizes/length probably lies in between the two.
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Re: Tilincă
Neat.
Two more measurements, if you don't mind ...
How long are the windows, from the exit of the windway to the lip? In the photos, the pale one looks to have a slightly longer window, which would explain the easier bottom note and harder harmonics.
What's the pitch of the lowest note? From the length, I'm guessing around middle-C, maybe 270 Hz.
EDIT: You already answered that second question in the original post. I got so caught up in the pictures I didn't read carefully enought.
Two more measurements, if you don't mind ...
How long are the windows, from the exit of the windway to the lip? In the photos, the pale one looks to have a slightly longer window, which would explain the easier bottom note and harder harmonics.
What's the pitch of the lowest note? From the length, I'm guessing around middle-C, maybe 270 Hz.
EDIT: You already answered that second question in the original post. I got so caught up in the pictures I didn't read carefully enought.
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Re: Tilincă
The pale one is .210 inches from the exit of the windway to the lip. The plug extends just slightly past the windway into the bore (you can just make it out in the second photo).
The dark stained one is about .250 inches at the edges, and .265 inches in the center (you can see the slight curve in the pics). The plug on this one extends significantly past the windway and into the bore which makes it look like it has a shorter window (it is easily seen in the second photo).
Both of them have a fundamental of C4 (261.6).
EDIT: I meant C4
The dark stained one is about .250 inches at the edges, and .265 inches in the center (you can see the slight curve in the pics). The plug on this one extends significantly past the windway and into the bore which makes it look like it has a shorter window (it is easily seen in the second photo).
Both of them have a fundamental of C4 (261.6).
EDIT: I meant C4
- Zabava77
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Re: Tilincă
I've found this online store selling them: http://www.shop.kieffers.de/index.php?c ... uct=929744
I bought my own from e-bay (from a Ukrainian maker), but did not receive it yet. Can't wait!
I bought my own from e-bay (from a Ukrainian maker), but did not receive it yet. Can't wait!
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- Zabava77
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Re: Tilincă
This is another site with many beautiful folk flutes, including tilinca (koncovka):
http://english.fujarka.cz/
http://english.fujarka.cz/
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