Tilincă

A place for players of other folk/world music wind instruments.
User avatar
I.D.10-t
Posts: 7657
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:57 am
antispam: No
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, Earth

Tilincă

Post by I.D.10-t »

Yet Another Overtone Flute.

Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.

Tilincă / Pipe song
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."
User avatar
MichaelLoos
Posts: 675
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:53 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I'm here because I just wanted to change my location... but it turns out much more complicated than I thought. Do I already have the 100 required characters?
Location: Klietz, Germany

Re: Tilincă

Post by MichaelLoos »

Both types do exist.
The hungarian version of the instrument (tilinkó, also played by the csángó minority in Romania) seems to invariably have a fipple.
Dumitru Zamfira used to play a side-blown version of the instrument which I guess was in fact a seljefloyte he picked up during his travels with various orchestras (like a tin whistle he brought back, which was then declared to be a "fluier specially made from brass, for highest brilliance and precision" on a record cover).
User avatar
Corgicrazed
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:34 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: California

Re: Tilincă

Post by Corgicrazed »

Wow. I like that. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."

The Second Doctor
User avatar
hans
Posts: 2259
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I've been making whistles since 2010 in my tiny workshop at my home. I've been playing whistle since teenage times.
Location: Moray Firth, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by hans »

I.D.10-t wrote:Yet Another Overtone Flute.

Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.

Tilincă / Pipe song
None of the photos in that video depicts a tilinka. They are mostly kavals (Moldavian kavals with five finger holes).
Here is a demo of a Moldavian tilinkó (play starts at ca 40sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYlB8pOb_5c
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfgzbBpXqwU
User avatar
JackCampin
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:05 am
antispam: No
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by JackCampin »

This shows the technique quite well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63tFynMBIes

Hans, do you know Lindsay Porteous? He probably has more practical experience with these than anybody else in Scotland. He makes them by sticking a whistle mouthpiece (Generation B flat or similar) on the end of a piece of ski pole. He often plays two at once, I'm not sure where he got that technique from.
User avatar
hans
Posts: 2259
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I've been making whistles since 2010 in my tiny workshop at my home. I've been playing whistle since teenage times.
Location: Moray Firth, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by hans »

Jack, I have not met Lindsay Porteous. Using ski poles sounds good!
I've made my own overtone whistle using a plastic head of a C or mellow (wide bore) D whistle, which fits just fine over a 9/16" brass tube (K&S 9/16" x .014). I use two of these 12" long tubes cello-taped end-to-end together, which produces a slightly sharp C whistle. Get a K&S 19/32" x .014 to make a joint/slide to fit over the tubes, or extend the tube further. This can work as a slide overtone whistle as well!

Do you own a tilinkó and can tell me the internal diameter and length?
Or those measurements for a Moldavian kaval?
I am curious about the length to bore ratio of these instruments.
The Moldavian A whistle I've seen on videos seems also to be a rather narrow bore instrument, so good for overtones and higher registers.
User avatar
JackCampin
Posts: 383
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:05 am
antispam: No
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by JackCampin »

I don't have a tilinko. Yes they are narrow bore.

I measured my Moldavian A kaval for Francis de Villiers here when he asked a few weeks ago. This is the email I sent him:

Moldvai kaval in A, one-piece elder, by Feri Szegercz from Georgheni, Romania
Note the labium is on the LOWER side

overall length: 74.5 cm
ext dia: 26mm
bore not very circular (done with 2 augers)
int dia at bottom end: 16.2-16.9mm
dia of block: 17.9mm
length of block: 21.9mm
area cut off block for windway: 1.12cm at mouth end, 0.7cm at labium end
about 1mm of chamfer at the windway end
voicing opening: 0.65cm long, 0.55cm wide,
labium length: 2.0cm
wall thickness at labium: 0.52cm one side, 0.47cm the other
labium very slightly curved concentrically with the bore and slightly concave longitudinally, maybe 0.5mm each way

fingerhole centres from bottom:
12.1cm
14.8cm
24.4cm
28.3cm
31.6cm
fingerholes all 0.77cm long and 0.64cm wide except for the bottom one, about 1mm smaller all round
User avatar
I.D.10-t
Posts: 7657
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:57 am
antispam: No
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, Earth

Re: Tilincă

Post by I.D.10-t »

hans wrote:
I.D.10-t wrote:Yet Another Overtone Flute.

Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.

Tilincă / Pipe song
None of the photos in that video depicts a tilinka. They are mostly kavals (Moldavian kavals with five finger holes).
I could have found a better video. I ignored the photos and was listening more to the tune.
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."
User avatar
hans
Posts: 2259
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I've been making whistles since 2010 in my tiny workshop at my home. I've been playing whistle since teenage times.
Location: Moray Firth, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by hans »

Yes, the tune was lovely!
I just wanted to point out the discrepancy, in case someone was associating the flute pics with the tune played.

Jack, thanks for all the detailed info! It seems it is even narrower bore than I thought, over 40 for length-to-bore ratio, double that of a normal whistle. That will be a tricky first octave!
User avatar
cadancer
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:31 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: Pasadena, California

Re: Tilincă

Post by cadancer »

hans wrote:
I.D.10-t wrote:Yet Another Overtone Flute.

Looking up info on Romanian folk instruments I ran across the Tilincă. I cannot tell it it has a fipple or is just an open tube. Any way, it might be of interest to the those interested in willow flutes and other Overtone flutes.

Tilincă / Pipe song
None of the photos in that video depicts a tilinka. They are mostly kavals (Moldavian kavals with five finger holes).
Here is a demo of a Moldavian tilinkó (play starts at ca 40sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYlB8pOb_5c
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfgzbBpXqwU
Both of the instruments in the videos appear to have fipples. I had a friend that played an end-blown one... just an open pipe.

I occasionally play one of his tunes on the top section of my kaval. Cool tune. :)

...john
doublebucklemonk
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:22 pm
antispam: No

Re: Tilincă

Post by doublebucklemonk »

Here are a few Hungarian Tilinko that I picked up last month on a trip to Budapest. They are both pitched in C.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Some info and measurements.
The blond colored one with the metal band and lathe turned decorations. It was made by Antal Szabo.
It is a hardwood, but I am unsure exactly what. The other flutes I have from this maker are made from plum, but this doesn't look like plum to me.
25 5/16 inches overall length
24 3/8 inches from ramp to the end of the flute.
.585 inch bore diameter
.335 inch windway width
This one has a very pure flute like sound. The lower end is easy to play, but anything above the 7th partial is a challenge. It is more difficult to switch partials, but once you hit the note, they are more stable.

The other one is made of a softwood and stained a dark brown. Unsure of wood or maker.
25 15/16 inches overall length
24 3/4 inches from ramp to the end of the flute
.505 inch bore diameter
.335 inch windway width
This one has a far "chiffier" sound with more color. It is easier to play overall and I can easily play to the 9th partial and with some effort to the 11th. It is more responsive to subtle changes in breath pressure, but as a result the notes themselves are more unstable and the low end is quite difficult to play.

I would say the sweet spot for bore sizes/length probably lies in between the two.
Tunborough
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:59 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: Southwestern Ontario

Re: Tilincă

Post by Tunborough »

Neat.

Two more measurements, if you don't mind ...

How long are the windows, from the exit of the windway to the lip? In the photos, the pale one looks to have a slightly longer window, which would explain the easier bottom note and harder harmonics.

What's the pitch of the lowest note? From the length, I'm guessing around middle-C, maybe 270 Hz.

EDIT: You already answered that second question in the original post. I got so caught up in the pictures I didn't read carefully enought.
doublebucklemonk
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:22 pm
antispam: No

Re: Tilincă

Post by doublebucklemonk »

The pale one is .210 inches from the exit of the windway to the lip. The plug extends just slightly past the windway into the bore (you can just make it out in the second photo).

The dark stained one is about .250 inches at the edges, and .265 inches in the center (you can see the slight curve in the pics). The plug on this one extends significantly past the windway and into the bore which makes it look like it has a shorter window (it is easily seen in the second photo).

Both of them have a fundamental of C4 (261.6).

EDIT: I meant C4
User avatar
Zabava77
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:27 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by Zabava77 »

I've found this online store selling them: http://www.shop.kieffers.de/index.php?c ... uct=929744

I bought my own from e-bay (from a Ukrainian maker), but did not receive it yet. Can't wait!
Festina Lente
User avatar
Zabava77
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:27 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Tilincă

Post by Zabava77 »

This is another site with many beautiful folk flutes, including tilinca (koncovka):
http://english.fujarka.cz/
Festina Lente
Post Reply