Looking To Purchase New Recorder

[tje]

Hello,

I'm a new recorder player who is interested in learning pieces from the renaissance as well as classic Irish folk pieces. To sum up my experience so far, it's a been a blast! I've tried many different instruments, I think I've found one that I may stick with. The convenience and beautiful sound of the recorder make it easy and enjoyable to practice on. It's also fun to jam out on!

Anyways, the recorder I currently own is a rather cheap plastic recorder. I'd really like to own a wood recorder, but I'm sort of on a budget. I've browsed the Internet and I really like this little guy:

http://www.earlymusicshop.com/product.a ... c-pearwood

It's just what I need and the price seems to be fair, though I'm no expert on quality. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this particular recorder? If so, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Also, if anyone has any other recommendations for me, that'd be great. I'm really only interested in renaissance style recorders.. It might be silly and a little naive, but I like this style simply because I would like to learn many pieces from this period.. I also look the way their designed more than the modern recorder.

And one more question if I may.. Has anyone purchased a recorder from the Internet before? And if you have, where was it from? I'd like to explore as many possibilities as I can. Unfortunately, I can't find many shops that specialize in recorders down here in South Florida.

Anyways, great forum ya'll got here. I'm glad to have discovered it. I'd greatly appreciate any knowledge you can share!

[MTGuru]

Hi tje, welcome.

I personally like the Mollenhauer Dream Flute quite a lot. I have the all-plastic single-hole soprano by choice, but the all-wood and wood+plastic get good reviews, too. I'm sure you know it's a hybrid instrument with a wide bore but baroque fingering through the 2nd register. It's pretty loud, more open than a baroque instrument, and more aggressive than the Moeck Renaissance consort I used to play. It also works nicely for folk tunes and dance music.

Ideally, for dedicated Renaissance playing, I'd probably choose a Ganassi or Kynseker. But the Dream Flute is nicely made, good looking, and a good compromise at a very reasonable price IMO.

If you're in Florida, no need to order from the UK. Lazar's Early Music (California) and Unicorn Music (Indiana) both carry them online or by mail/phone. I got mine from Lazar's, and there was no problem at all.

http://www.lazarsearlymusic.com/
http://www.buyrecorders.com/

Best of luck with your decision!

[tje]

Thank you so much for the welcome and sharing your knowledge, MTGuru!

I've done some more searching and reading about a few other recorders, and I think I've finally made up my mind. I'm going to go with the 4119 Dream Recorder. It's exactly what I'm looking for and it's within my budget. I'm going to send an e-mail over to Bill Lazar and ask him about them. I'll be sure to let you know how everything goes!

Thanks again

[James_Alto]

That's a great choice - the Mollenhauer Dream series have their own characteristic sound and are very even across both octaves.

They took over the excellent Roessler Recorder group - I've been waiting for them to bring them back to life before getting another bass recorder, but it seems like that won't happen. I'm saving up for a Mollenhauer Denner bass instead:



The style of recorder you're looking at is a renaissance type, rather than a baroque type - you can find similar styles from Moeck, Kung and the higher end European manufacturers.

Best of luck.

[JackCampin]

I have a wooden Dream soprano (I think one of the older models made by Adriana Breukink before she licenced production to Mollenhauer) and it works wonderfully.

I can't say the same about the plastic ones. I don't think they're worth the money - they don't respond very well in the high register.

[MTGuru]

I can't say the same about the plastic ones. I don't think they're worth the money - they don't respond very well in the high register.

I agree my Traumflöte can be a bit testy way up top, needing a tight embouchure. But the way I think of it, a Renaissance recorder was expected to have a compass of only a 12th anyway - like the Moeck consort instruments I used to play. So as a Renaissance recorder substitute, the top end of the Dreamflute is a bonus.

I have a wooden Dream soprano (I think one of the older models made by Adriana Breukink before she licenced production to Mollenhauer) and it works wonderfully.

Adriana still offers her own original line of Dreamflutes, but at a cost of up to 1200€ for the soprano - around 50 times the cost of the plastic Mollenhauer. So given the relative cost/value ratios, at ~£23 I still think the plastic Molly is a good deal for the price.

[tje]

James, that Denner bass from Mollenhauer looks amazing. One day I'm going to get a tenor, but for now I feel I still have so much to learn before making that step!

My 4119 arrived in the mail yesterday.. I can barely put into words how beautiful this thing sounds to me.. I am use to playing my cheap plastic Harmony Renaissance recorder and this Dream recorder doesn't even sound like the same kind of instrument. The tone is amazingly sweet and doesn't have that 'reedy' sound which my plastic one produces.

The large finger-holes on this recorder I am finding so useful for performing pitch bends. I can slightly lift one of my fingers up off the hole and get a wonderful bend! If this is a normal technique I'm not sure, but I keep doing it all the time on this thing.. It sounds incredible and is extremely easy to do.

I'm following Mr. Lazar's method for breaking in wooden recorders, which limits you to a maximum of 15 minutes of play time per day on the first week. I have to force my self to stop playing it, but I know in the long run it is what's best.

I do have some questions about care however.. When applying cork grease, I am just putting a very small amount around the whole cork. It is so little that you can't really see much of it on there, but you can surely feel it. The head joint goes on nice and smoothly, with just a gentle amount of force, however taking it off requires a little more, but not an incredible amount of force. Is this normal, or should I be applying a bit more grease?

When I'm done playing, I disconnect the head from the bore. I then clean the bore out with this cleaning rod that ships with the instrument. I do the same thing with the head-joint, but I'm very cautious to make sure it's not causing any abrasion to the labium from the inside. Does this sound okay, or should I stop doing this?

I then let the instrument sit out, exposed to air to dry. Are these efficient methods of care, or should I be doing things a little differently?

Anyways, thank you all for your recommendations and advice. I have fallen in love with this instrument already and hope to keep it in good playing condition for the years to come

[Tim2723]

Congratulations on your new instrument! Play long and prosper!

As for the break in and maintenance, I think you're on track. It's hard to stop with new instrument, but it's really important if it's to last for years. The cork will break in just like the rest of it. Eventually you'll need to re-cork it, but that may be a long way down the road. But that's normal, so don't worry. In a short while the cork will compress and the whole thing will settle in. Just be very gentle at first. There's nothing worse than the gut-wrenching sound of the joint splitting. You have to be very careful not to damage any part of the instrument, but it sounds like you're doing OK. I like to fold the cleaning cloth over the top of the rod so nothing but cloth touches wood. I also only use plastic or wooden cleaning rods, never metal, and wooden matchsticks to clean the finger holes, and soft card stock to clean the windway. Before I use the rod I give a good puff to clear anything out of the windway. I built a drying rack for my wooden instruments that let's them stand up safely while drying. Don't let the pieces roll off the table!! Did your instrument come with oiling instructions? Some do, some don't. Some woods need it more than others. Some makers say it isn't needed at all with their instruments, so go with what the maker says. Oiling wooden instruments is an old discussion around here. Everyone has their methods and preferences. When push comes to shove, who should you trust more, the people who made your recorder and know everything about it, or some guy like me that you met on the Internet? LOL!

[James_Alto]

James, that Denner bass from Mollenhauer looks amazing. One day I'm going to get a tenor, but for now I feel I still have so much to learn before making that step!

Yes - I love the bass recorder sound. The tenor is 'not quite there', although as a descant C player, it is more intuitive to switch to tenor, to save transposing music. The bass recorder plays in the key of F, so you have to learn the bass clef notation (not a lot of work though).

I'm not surprised you're enthralled by the 4119. Mollenhauer's 'sound' is very distinctive. If you move back to another wooden recorder brand, you might struggle to like it as much. And yes - plastic is forever, but for recorders, it's more for outdoor and learning fun, whereas a proper wooden recorder is for the quality playing moments.

The large finger-holes on this recorder I am finding so useful for performing pitch bends. I can slightly lift one of my fingers up off the hole and get a wonderful bend! If this is a normal technique I'm not sure, but I keep doing it all the time on this thing.. It sounds incredible and is extremely easy to do.

There are many ways to do pitch bends on woodwind instruments. The easiest method, is to 'slide' a finger off a note, to bend it up, or to slide a finger onto a note, to bend it down. The sliding itself, alters the pitch. On a recorder, there aren't many options other than finger sliding. If you're into Irish music, then you will need to master sliding, as well as other forms of ornamentation; trilling a note up, and then down, around a note, for emphasis etc.

I'm following Mr. Lazar's method for breaking in wooden recorders, which limits you to a maximum of 15 minutes of play time per day on the first week. I have to force my self to stop playing it, but I know in the long run it is what's best.

You're so disciplined

I do have some questions about care however.. When applying cork grease, I am just putting a very small amount around the whole cork. It is so little that you can't really see much of it on there, but you can surely feel it. The head joint goes on nice and smoothly, with just a gentle amount of force, however taking it off requires a little more, but not an incredible amount of force. Is this normal, or should I be applying a bit more grease?

The moisture will act as a 'glue', if there is insufficent cork grease. You'll find this even on ABS plastic recorders. If you are applying much force just to rotate off the recorder joint, then you need to make sure you definitely 'rotate', rather than pull, otherwise you'll risk a stress fracture. Cork is easily replaced, but it makes sense to add more grease so that it's a smooth sliding joint.

You probably know, that it's okay to have moisture in wood instruments; as long as you aren't exposing the instrument to rapid or sudden changes in humidity, it will be fine. Maybe use weakened linseed oil once every month to lubricate the inside, with a rag, to make sure that it isn't at risk of fracturing. That way, your recorder should last at least a decade with regular playing.

I still use my ABS recorders - they are great for picking up and practicing, without needing much care. They are easier to use and abuse, and require less care - that's why I decided to get a cheap plastic bass recorder, after my wooden one cracked. I wasn't caring for my bass recorder as you've started off doing for your recorder, so hopefully you'll be spared the pain of having to replace yours in 10 years like me

[Tim2723]

James made the point about cork grease much better than I did. You want enough to make the joint smooth and perfectly sealed, but not messy. The cork will absorb grease over time.

[James_Alto]

Here is one of the German Industry standard reviews - from 1984.

That was a long time ago:


http://www.roesslerweb.de/index-e.htm


Roessler, were at the height of their powers then. If you look at the reviews, the prices have approximately doubled or tripled for equivalent recorders by today's standards. Also - the Roessler was the cheapest, yet the best reviewed recorder ever tested.

No wonder they still command premiums on the second hand market. I was disappointed by the reviews of the Mollenhauers which at almost 2x the price, came off much worse on the review. However Mollenhauer recorders today, have moved on significantly with huge innovations in their designs.