Wide bore recorder makers list

A place for players of other folk/world music wind instruments.
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Flavius
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Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Flavius »

This is what I've been able to get so far. Could you kindly help me complete/correct/expand the list below? I'm thinking of entry-level, modestly-priced instruments rather than Ganassi/Bassano/Kynseker replicas, but of course if there's interest they could also be included.

Thanks!
  • Susato
    Maker: Susato
    Dealers: Maker's site,
    Tuning: a=440
    Keys: Sopranino g'' & f'', Soprano c'', alto g' & f'
    Materials: ABS
    Reviews: One,
    _
  • Adri's Dreamflute (Traumflöte)
    Maker: Mollenhauer
    Dealers: See dealer locator at maker's site,
    Tuning: a=442
    Keys: Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass
    Materials: Soprano ABS or pearwood, lower keys only available in wood (wooden models are significantly pricier)
    Reviews: One, two
    _
  • Angel 'renaissance'
    Maker: Yurae
    Dealers: Peripole-Bergerault
    Tuning: ???
    Keys: Soprano, Alto F
    Materials: ABS
    Reviews: One,
    _
  • Klassenfloete
    Maker: Kunath
    Dealers: Maker's site
    Tuning: a=440 or 432
    Keys: Soprano
    Materials: Pearwood
    Reviews:
    -
  • Waldorf Edition
    Maker: Mollenhauer
    Dealers: See dealer locator at maker's site,
    Tuning: a=442
    Keys: Soprano (2 pentatonic models + 1 regular), Alto, Tenor, Bass
    Materials: Pearwood
    Reviews:
Last edited by Flavius on Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ubizmo
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by ubizmo »

Thanks for putting that list up. I'm interested in recorders such as these, and the Kunath is a new one to me. As you can see from the other, "review", thread, I wasn't happy with the plastic Adri's Dream soprano. The top half of the 2nd octave was simply too dicey for me to have any confidence playing it. Virtually everyone I've spoken to about these has said that the pear wood Dream sopranos are more manageable. I'm tempted to get one, but the Kunath Klassenfloete looks very interesting too.

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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Kypfer »

Sorry to be a little off topic, but what exactly comprises a "wide-bore" recorder, please? ... obviously wider bore than "normal", but do they retain a tapered bore, hence presumably being quite "tubby" at the top, or is the bore relatively cylindrical, making it more of an eight-hole whistle?

Possibly even further off topic ... I've seen reference to the Norwegian "tussefløyte" (pixie flute) being similar to a recorder but having an extremly conical boring. Again, wondering if they're fatter at the top than a "normal" recorder, or is the hole at the far end smaller ... or both?
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Flavius »

Kypfer wrote:Sorry to be a little off topic, but what exactly comprises a "wide-bore" recorder, please?
A fair question! The answer, however, might be too long, so for the sake of simplicity we'll settle for an instrument taking after the characteristics (internal design, looks, sound, sometimes playing technique) of pre-Baroque recorders, to varying degrees. The range goes from painstakingly accurate replicas of museum pieces to modern interpretations of the "Renaissance recorder" concept. I think those of us who aren't professionally involved in HIP/PI would be happy with English/Baroque-fingering instruments that play well across at least two octaves and that have the rounder, fuller sound associated with Renaissance recorders. It might be an extra that the instruments looked (loosely) the part, as that would allow to use them for reenactment, fairs and the like, though that may not be a priority for all players.

You'll find more on the cylindrical recorder/eight-hole whistle in the reviews linked above. I've checked the "tussefløyte" you mentioned and it looks like a regular Baroque-style recorder to me. There were variations in design between different makers and over time, and not all look the same (see, for instance, models available from Blezinger and this Stanesby model), nor like the contemporary instrument.
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Kypfer »

Subsequent to my previous posting "what comprises a wide-bore recorder" I thought you might be interested to see this :
Image

Inspired by the instruments used and made by The Piper's Guild, it's effectively a "D" whistle with a low C "pinky" hole ... plays (mostly) like a recorder, but with a 19mm (3/4") bore, it's range is limited to an octave c-c then up to g ... just about ;-)

I haven't drilled an octave (left thumb) hole yet, but it certainly has a much more "mellow" tone than either my recorder or my whistles, due no doubt to the lack of high harmonics ... I'm very pleased with it :)
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Flavius »

Kypfer, that looks very interesting, and so does the way you describe how it sounds. Could you expand a bit on the playing technique?
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Flavius »

I've found a new entry for the list, the Mollenhauer Waldorf Edition: bore after van Eyck, modern Baroque fingering, 2+octaves, sound samples to be found at each key "Details" page:

Waldorf Edition
Maker: Mollenhauer
Dealers: See dealer locator at maker's site,
Tuning: a=442
Keys: Soprano (2 pentatonic models + 1 regular), Alto, Tenor, Bass
Materials: Pearwood
Reviews:: -
Kypfer
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Kypfer »

Flavius asked :
Could you expand a bit on the playing technique?
If you ignore the seventh hole, (right-hand little finger) it plays almost exactly like a six-hole "D" whistle, but probably due to the bore (or my hole-sizes), the cross-fingering for C-natural and F-natural are slightly different. The high-D currently has to be played "six-fingers down", and is consequently comparatively loud, as OXXXXXXo is very sharp, probably hence the need for a left-hand thumb hole. The "bonus" low C is just that, nice to have :) The transcription I've got of "She Moved Through the Fair" in a (probably minor) key of "one sharp" uses it, as do the versions I've got of "Good King Wenceslas" and "We Three Kings ... " ... both in "one flat".

You can find some sound files (NOT by me) of similar instruments at http://www.pipersguild.org/
Last edited by Kypfer on Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Kypfer »

the Mollenhauer Waldorf Edition:
... interesting :wink: the front page describes it as a one-piece instrument, but the quoted "Purchased parts package:" includes Joint Grease ... those maintenance instructions might make entertaining reading !
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Flavius »

Kypfer, thanks for the description (I was puzzled when at first you said it played like a recorder). Also, thanks for the link to the Piper's Guild site.

Concerning Mollenhauer's Waldorf Edition recorders, note that the standard SATB have separate heads and bodies (it's the Baumlings that are made of a single piece).
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by Flavius »

So, apparently, that's it; a rather short list, sadly. Not completely unexpected, but yet, one can't help wonder... why? If I may go for a little rant

[mode rant=On]
In a world where there's a niche for ABS NAFs and ABS shakuhachi and one ABS fife, one ABS Baroque traverso and three different brands of wood-simulating ABS Baroque recorders, we have to believe than an ABS wide-bore recorder wouldn't be viable?
[mode rant=Off]

And I don't necessarily mean a painstakingly accurate replica of a specific historical Renaissance instrument (*). Simply a wider-bored instrument, with a rounder voice and a more even volume distribution than the Baroque-style ones, that besides the odd Early Music inclined amateur might appeal perhaps to jazz and folk enthusiasts. Is that such a small demographic as to render the investment unworthy? Apparently the people at Mollenhauer think there's a niche there, and their (wooden) Dream and Waldorf seem to cater to the requirements described. One can't help wonder why Aulos, Yamaha, or Zen-On find the production of an ABS wide-bore recorder inviable.





(*) Although, seeing as the aforementioned wood-simulating ABS take after Rottenburgh, Haka and Bressan, one wouldn't complain if we got a (loosely) ABS van Eyck.
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Re: Wide bore recorder makers list

Post by James_Alto »

Flavius wrote:
And I don't necessarily mean a painstakingly accurate replica of a specific historical Renaissance instrument (*). Simply a wider-bored instrument, with a rounder voice and a more even volume distribution than the Baroque-style ones, that besides the odd Early Music inclined amateur might appeal perhaps to jazz and folk enthusiasts. Is that such a small demographic as to render the investment unworthy? Apparently the people at Mollenhauer think there's a niche there, and their (wooden) Dream and Waldorf seem to cater to the requirements described. One can't help wonder why Aulos, Yamaha, or Zen-On find the production of an ABS wide-bore recorder inviable.
I didn't really understand what people mean by a 'wide bore' recorder. Surely as it gets bigger, from garkhlein to great subcontrabass, the bore gets bigger?

I've had a number of bass recorders, but never thought to measure the bore. I suppose the rennaissance style ones have wider bores, limited octaves, and more penetrating and voluminous sounds than the baroque ones. And the modern developments might have extended the renaissance recorders by a single note, to move it from 1 octave + sixth to 1 octave + fifth, and the baroque recorder from 2 octaves and a note, to 2 octaves and a minor third, and then 2 1/2 octaves altogether.

I'm prob. one of those 'odd Early Music inclined amateurs who has started to use a bass recorder for jazz and folk. Bass recorders, beyond the ABS plastic school knick style ones, barely sell enough to make it a lucrative investment. As it is, with Mollenhauer, don't forget their superb Denner range - a proper vertical bass with bocal. I really can't stand knick basses. The player has absolutely no flexibility in positioning, and although the knick design is less problematic than the bocal, a proper bocal design makes the sound gorgeous.

Some things to consider other than wide bore: maple is lighter than pearwood (sounds darker, richer). That doesn't mean that the denser the wood, the better. An ebony or boxwood bass recorder would be unmanageable without a stand or cause serious strain after playing. Knick basses cause me more strain than a bocal driven bass recorder which I can sling diagonally. The problem with wider bores .... the pitch becomes dramatically unsettled, the wider the bore, for the wood density, and then the fingering holes and positions need to be altered, and it all ends up being a huge compromise, rather than an improvement. Unless it costs a lot of $$$$ :(

Well if Aulos made a ABS cream bocal bass, like their baroque flute, I think it would be a killer. The Aulos sound is really great, and although it isn't wood, it's good enough for me.
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