Dear Miss Manners,

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:22 pm

I know I am! Holy Moley!

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:34 pm

Oh, BTW, I was reacting only to their magnificent collections of fine recorders. Quartets of stunningly beautiful women in concert black and high heels have no effect on me. I'm far too polite to think otherwise. It's their talent I appreciate.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:26 pm

Cynth wrote:Or if you like to dance while you play your recorder maybe the recorder quartet called Sirena would be more up your alley.
They must be really happy.
<img src="http://www.sirena.se/328.jpg"width=800>

Now this is where it's at. I have to admit I've always had this deepseated longing to squeeze into a diaphanous black peignoir and do Martha Graham-syle "vogueing" with a recorder.

There. I've said it.

OTOH, it looks like the poor instruments are desperately trying to escape.

ketida · Post by **ketida** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:42 pm

You are SO screwed.

ketida · Post by **ketida** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:43 pm

Just trying to fulfill your prediction.

You're welcome.

Yuri · Post by **Yuri** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:53 am

Nanohedron, I can't help thinking. Is it the recorder or is it the german fingering that bugs you? Since you bothered to specify the german fingering, that is. In the latter case there are ways to deal with it.

jbarter · Post by **jbarter** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:00 am

Cynth wrote:Or if you like to dance while you play your recorder maybe the recorder quartet called Sirena would be more up your alley.
They must be really happy.
<img src="http://www.sirena.se/328.jpg"width=800>

The beginners broomstick riding class seem to be having a little trouble with the mount.

coupedefleur · Post by **coupedefleur** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:24 am

A German system recorder is wrong for Baroque or Renaissance music too. What it's meant for is for children in Germany to play folk tunes, between WWI and WWII. There may be some sort of distinctive costume associated with them, but I couldn't find any photos.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:45 am

Yuri wrote:Nanohedron, I can't help thinking. Is it the recorder or is it the german fingering that bugs you? Since you bothered to specify the german fingering, that is. In the latter case there are ways to deal with it.

Neither, and neither. Again, remember that recorders do NOT bug me per se. The issue here was a social one based on my normal disinterest, not an appropriateness-of-instrument issue or an out-of-hand prejudice. Anyway, I was just displaying my sensitivity despite my ignorance. For as little as I know about the beasts, I am aware that a recorder is not just a recorder, and that by posting this subject here among knowledgeable people, it might be good to offer specifics. If anything bugs me, it might be the name "Yamaha", and that it is plastic. But as for your saying that "there are ways to deal with it", tell me more. Is German fingering considered undesirable?

The instrument came with a fingering chart, and all I can say is "holy crap". It goes against almost everything I work by in whistles, simple-system flute, and uilleann pipes. The chart offered up both German and Baroque fingerings, too (and multilingually, including Indonesian. I have no idea about that one), but I haven't tried to see if the Baroque method works on this baby. I'm guessing it won't.

Thing is, I'll probably give it a go now that it's sitting here looking at me. Like I said, though, I've got enough on my plate already with the Irish traditional stuff. So we'll see.

jbarter wrote:The beginners broomstick riding class seem to be having a little trouble with the mount.

Yuri · Post by **Yuri** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:40 pm

German fingering was designed in the 1910-s by a meaker who misunderstood the principles of true baroque (and earlier) fingerings and just why they evolved the way they did. The result is that the F-F# (on the sopranos) or B-Bbs on altos are out of tune by definition in the second octave. No serious player will consider using that type for anything except German folksy songs, mostly promoted by the propagande machine between the two wars.
As it is plastic, it's not worth the work to modify into a baroque one. (yamaha does make really well-designed wooden recorders, too.) Otherwise a recorder maker could adjust the fingering to turn it into a baroque one. It mostly involves enlargeing the third hole, and touching up some of the others. But it only is worth it when talking about a recorder that has a really good sound, and is worht the trouble. It's not a cheap procedure.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:45 pm

Cynth wrote: I would try to maybe learn a few notes just to show I've gotten started---maybe learning a couple of tunes would be too much, but maybe at your level it wouldn't be too hard.

Stick to the first 6 holes and don't go up the octave and you're not far at all from a whistle, I believe.

So now all you need to is for the folks on the board to tell their favorite less-than-an-octave tunes.

TheSpoonMan · Post by **TheSpoonMan** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:05 pm

s1m0n wrote:
Cynth wrote: I would try to maybe learn a few notes just to show I've gotten started---maybe learning a couple of tunes would be too much, but maybe at your level it wouldn't be too hard.
Stick to the first 6 holes and don't go up the octave and you're not far at all from a whistle, I believe.

So now all you need to is for the folks on the board to tell their favorite less-than-an-octave tunes.

The first seven-eighths of the A part of Miss MacLeod's Reel, Irish version

Cynth · Post by **Cynth** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:47 pm

Yuri wrote:No serious player will consider using that type for anything except German folksy songs, mostly promoted by the propagande machine between the two wars.

Sooooooo, being a serious player I guess you are in the market for a folksy German song. Oh, before you play it, you should:
1. Locate Germany on a globe or world map. Discuss the central European climate (cold and snowy in the winter, and dark because of the latitude; warm, and pleasant, with long days, in the summer) and compare it to your climate.
2. Have a discussion with yourself of favorite activities for enjoying the outdoors. A favorite activity in Germany in spring and summer is hiking in the countryside, particularly in the mountains. This has been popular in Germany for so long that there are even German folk songs about enjoying the outdoors.
3. If available, look at pictures, or have coloring pages, of German or Austrian countryside or of traditional German hiking clothes, the short leather pants called Lederhosen (pronounced LAY-der-HOE-zen).
Here you go, Nano, it's you. (You wouldn't happen to own a pair of Lederhosen would you?)

s1m0n wrote: So now all you need to is for the folks on the board to tell their favorite less-than-an-octave tunes.

Now we're getting somewhere.

TheSpoonMan wrote: The first seven-eighths of the A part of Miss MacLeod's Reel, Irish version

And we are......7/8 of the way there. Alrighty!

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 am

Gee, thanks, Cynth. I tried speaking the lyrics and felt my arteries hardening.