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 Post subject: Anyone play the Ney
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:43 am 
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I've recently come across some Persian music featuring the "Ney," a wood instrument similar to the flute. One web site describes it as the oldest instrument in the world still being played. Apperantly, there's a Turkish version of the instrument as well.

The sound is deep, mysterious and quite lovely. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to play one. Unless I get immediate feedback to the effect that it's played entirely differently from a concert flute I'm at risk for impulsively hunting one down and buying it!

Jeff

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:45 am 
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Edited to remove a stupid attempt at humor which was brought on by too much coffee too early in the morning, but it still seemed funny to me. :)

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Last edited by dow on Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone play the Ney
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:47 am 
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JeffS wrote:
The sound is deep, mysterious and quite lovely. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to play one. Unless I get immediate feedback to the effect that it's played entirely differently from a concert flute I'm at risk for impulsively hunting one down and buying it!


I don't play one, but someone brought one to session once and
showed us how it was played. It's NOT EASY!!! It's sort of like Quena,
I think, in that you blow over a top hole like you blow over a bottle, but
the lip position is totally wierd, and it seems to take a lot of air and
have a lot of tone variability depending on breath control/lip position.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:08 am 
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See: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvandoel/ney/technique.html

For it is played entirely differently from a concert flute.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:25 am 
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I play the ney... There are at least three main types: arabic, turkish and persian.

The arabic and turkish are very close to each other, seven holes and 8 nodes, the turkish being generally bigger, with a horn mouthpice, the arabic just a piece of reed...

Image

The persian ney has six holes and six nodes, and is probably the strangest flute to play. The end is just a brass tube (or sometimes just the reed itself). You insert it between your teeth, put the tongue on it, and blow. Very very odd.

Image

The fingerings, too are quite strange. For an arabic or turkish ney in C: (6 front holes and one thumb)

Low octave
C: x xxx xxx
D: x xxx xxo
E flat: x xxx xoo
E half-flat: x xxx ooo
F: x xxo ooo
F#: x xoo ooo
G: x ooo ooo

Opening the thumb hole generally gives a B half flat.
You can then overblow and octave higher.

But what makes the ney very special is the third register, a fifth higher (G, A, B flat...). A good ney plays at least two and a half or even three octaves.

(edited to remove a link GarryKelly gave before me)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:02 am 
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Okay, so I'll play the Ney in my next life and just enjoy listening to it in this life. Thanks for the info. That's what I needed to hear, since I don't have the money to pay for one nor the time for learning what seems like a significantly different instrument.

Keep on playin' that ney brother!

Regards,
Jeff

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:29 pm 
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I agree, some instruments are best appreciated by listening to the artists who have mastered them-for various reasons. But, it doesn't hurt to try something new or listen to instruments that we usually don't come across in our culture that often.

The Chinese Xiao flute is another you might like, Jeff. No rice paper to fool with as on the Dizi, but I understand the Xiao is challenging to play, like the Shakuhachi (which originated in China too).

There's a website that has Guqin and Xiao duets samples you can listen to that are very nice to hear:

http://www.chineseculture.net/wangfei/lxt/cd.html

Also, if you put in the search box on Chiff here Xiao, you will come up with a lot of material also, believe it or not! That search also turns up more about the Ney too.

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 Post subject: kaval
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:09 pm 
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One of my favorite instruments in this family is the Bulgarian kaval. Many parts of eastern europe have various incarnations of this folk flute. Once you get the hang of tone production, producing a scale is not very difficult.

One of the aspects I particularly appreciate about the kaval, other then it's unique sound, is the use of the 3rd harmonic register (starting on A with all holes covered on a D instrument). This allows for an almost chromatic range from D to F#', missing only the first D#, on a keyless instrument!

More info can be found at this handy web site:
http://www.robertsnider.com/Kavals/


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 Post subject: Blowing the Ney
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:03 pm 
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I'm relentlessly trying to get to blow a steady note on the Ney (Egyptian). Although I improved a great deal, i cant say i'm anywhere near geting a good steady sound out of that instrument. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:40 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that Erik the Flutmaker has one with a regular flute head so you don't have to learn the hard one!

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 Post subject: least i say ney
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:57 am 
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Hello

I have a ney, turkish, also a bulgarian kavel. They are very similar in of the approach to blow into the pipe. Basically, hold the stick at about 30 degrees off of you the center of your face/mouth. Seal a side of the hole, pipe with your mouth, it doesn't have to be very physical. Then purse your lips like you are going to whistle using your lips. Do short burst of air, otherwise you'll get dizi. Then angle the air stream sort of across and into the pipe.

You'll find that if you actually do whistle, into the pipe you'll get a better feel for this approach. Remember that a important part of this is in getting a decent seal of around half, more or less of the "light" seal, no need to think that pressure equals seal, it's a very easily attained, just move the stick around as you huff out a bit of airstream.

The speed of the airstream will also be important, that's where tone comes from as well as effects. Between varying the diameter of the airstream and the speed, somewhat a kin to force of the airstream, the various octaves come into play. It is much easier to play in the higher octaves then the lowest octave, where a lot of the mystery sounds dwell. From what i've ascertained the lowest octave is all about relaxing the lips and enlargening the diameter of the lips, thereby increasing the diameter of the airstream.

After a bit of time you'll get more comfortable with "the posture" which really isn't that rigorious. The biggest trip for me is the stretch between thumb hole and the "trad" six holes on top.

This technique works well on other flutes and whistles though the intonational variances are all out of wack, but it's still fun.

Take the fipple off of a whistle, cover the holes with the fingers as you usually would, instead of having the whistle perpendicular to your face/mouth angle it off at about 30degrees. The pipe won't be point straight down either. Try this, put your hands at your mouth in a cartisian plane, cross or the a lower case "t". Move your hands 30 degrees or so to the right, if you right handed. In the same way move both "planes of the cross, "t" 30degrees too. The "30" is not a hard and fast rule. Noodle around and you'll find it. You can blow into either end of the whistle, intonational differences are apparent.

This works on concert wooden flutes quite well too.

The blow is not hard and at least to me require less air than the flute or whistle. It's all about airstream consistency and attack. Also the smaller the instrument, typically the easier it is to play. As lower scale instruments require a stronger lip control with larger diameter and smaller instruments are much more forgiving.

ymmv

magical instrument....


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:09 am 
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Good ney playing instructions here:

http://www.neyzen.com/neymetodu_001.htm

Great instrument & music, there's lots of sound clips on this site as well:

http://www.neyzen.com/neytaksimleri.htm

Regards,

H.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:17 pm 
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thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:31 pm 
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Thanks for the help .... will presevere and hopefully prevail

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:42 pm 
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Location: China , Shanghai
Hi

a good website about Turkish Ney with informations and very good instruments is also this one :

http://www.bardoworks.it/ney.html


Manuel


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