Suggestions for rim blown flute?

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papageno
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Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by papageno »

I would like to try a rim blown flute. I've never played one of any type.
Anasazi, Quena, Kaval, Ney, etc. ???? I'm open at this point.
What I need is a relatively inexpensive, well made instrument. I don't want to invest too much without knowing that its something I really want to pursue.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks ,

Roger
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by MichaelLoos »

Here's a description how you can make a simple yet functionable kaval from PVC tubing - you won't get it any cheaper!
http://papuga.byethost32.com/kaval.html?i=1
There are also a few videos on youtube.
Bob Snider's page gives you some information on the instrument in general, as well as a beginner's tutorial for playing: http://www.robertsnider.com/kavals/
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by jimhanks »

I just posted this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUrHUNkYz18

About $50. Great place to start. If you watch the video, you'll see I haven't quite got the hang of it yet. :P
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by fatmac »

Just thinking out aloud, but seeing Jim's video, I wonder if you could use a low 'D' whistle without fipple/head(?), or maybe, if you cut off the windway of a whistle's fipple(?).

Anyone, any thoughts?

EDITED to say that I just tried removing the fipple & it works. :thumbsup:
Last edited by fatmac on Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by ernestmurphy »

Some years back, when I was learning Andean music, I got fine quenas/kenas from Bolivian makers. But the very best were several I bought from Jeff Whittier, who is primarily a maker of northern Indian classical flutes, or bansuris. He was making his Andean winds with painstakingly hand-carved notches, unusual in a time when most people use rat-tail files for expediency. At the time, Jeff was offering bamboo quenas and the larger quenachos. Sorry I lack contact information, but Jeff should be findable via Google. Last I heard, he was based in the San Francisco Bay Area.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by papageno »

Thanks to all for your replies.

I purchased a PVC 4-hole Mohave style flute from Mark Purtill who made Jim's "Anazita" flute in the video.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by jimhanks »

papageno wrote:Thanks to all for your replies.

I purchased a PVC 4-hole Mohave style flute from Mark Purtill who made Jim's "Anazita" flute in the video.
:thumbsup: Should be exactly the same blowing technique. Just fewer notes to worry about.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by neyzen »

papageno wrote:Thanks to all for your replies.

I purchased a PVC 4-hole Mohave style flute from Mark Purtill who made Jim's "Anazita" flute in the video.
I strongly advise you to try the ney.
Just listen to this group.. It has the best sound among all woodwind instruments.

https://youtu.be/lIOgvXrZkto
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by Geoffrey Ellis »

neyzen wrote:
papageno wrote:Thanks to all for your replies.

I purchased a PVC 4-hole Mohave style flute from Mark Purtill who made Jim's "Anazita" flute in the video.
I strongly advise you to try the ney.
Just listen to this group.. It has the best sound among all woodwind instruments.

https://youtu.be/lIOgvXrZkto
But it is also worth mentioning that the ney is among the most difficult flutes of it's kind to master! They are amazing, but they are not the most accessible flute to start with. The quena is probably an easier choice (not better, just easier).

And in this discussion, let's not omit the shakuhachi, since it another type of rim blown flute.
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Geoffrey Ellis
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by Geoffrey Ellis »

ernestmurphy wrote: He was making his Andean winds with painstakingly hand-carved notches, unusual in a time when most people use rat-tail files for expediency.
I was interested in this comment, being a flute maker myself (and I make quena among many other types of flutes). I was wondering what the virtue (or even the difference) was between hand-carved notches and those made with a file? When you speak of hand-carving the notch, do you mean that he does it with a carving knife or x-acto knife? And does he omit the use of files altogether? That seems surprising to me. With most embouchure cuts of all kinds, be they notches, blades, ellipses (for transverse flutes) etc., they are commonly finished with some type of file (in my case I favor various grits of sandpaper wrapped around a thin metal cylinder in lieu of a file). Completing the proper bevels, undercuts, etc. and doing it smoothly usually ends up requiring something like this. I can't envision carving the notch and not using some type of filing/sanding method to finish it cleanly.

And speaking as someone who has cut a lot of notches in my career, I don't tend to think of any type of file as being very expedient, simply because it takes skill and practice (and elbow grease). To be fair, filing might be expedient compared to carving the notch with a knife, so you might have a point :-)
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by papageno »

Geoffrey Ellis wrote:
And in this discussion, let's not omit the shakuhachi, since it another type of rim blown flute.
Speaking of the shakuhachi, I decided to try one of those as well. As a total neophyte I didn't feel ready for one of the beauties by Geoffrey Ellis, so I opted for a shakuhachi yuu. Seeing that they are temporarily unavailable in the USA, I purchased one directly from Japan. Ordered on October 17th, shipped the 18th and arrived at my door today the 20th at noon! All for $120.
So far I have successfully but inconsistently produced a tone. I'll be checking out Youtube videos for some instruction.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by AuLoS303 »

I wonder about these rim blown flutes. I was wondering if I could remove the head from one of my recorders (I do have a tenor) and blow across the tenon and get a sound.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by MichaelLoos »

You don't really blow across it like you would do on a panflute, the technique for rim-blown flutes is explained here: http://www.robertsnider.com/kavals/KavalBeginning.html
and yes, you can do that with every tube. In case of the recorder you won't get an in-tune scale as recorder headpieces are very long and therefore incorporate a good part of the overall instrument length. To get a good scale you'd need to saw it off right at the labium (I do NOT advise you to do so... :wink: ).
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by fatmac »

AuLoS303 wrote:I wonder about these rim blown flutes. I was wondering if I could remove the head from one of my.......
Try taking the head off one of your whistles, I tried it, & it works - but it's not easy to play.
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Re: Suggestions for rim blown flute?

Post by AuLoS303 »

MichaelLoos wrote:You don't really blow across it like you would do on a panflute, the technique for rim-blown flutes is explained here: http://www.robertsnider.com/kavals/KavalBeginning.html
and yes, you can do that with every tube. In case of the recorder you won't get an in-tune scale as recorder headpieces are very long and therefore incorporate a good part of the overall instrument length. To get a good scale you'd need to saw it off right at the labium (I do NOT advise you to do so... :wink: ).
That sounds really hard. But it doesn't quite describe what the mouthpiece looks like. Is it like a quena's mouthpiece, or is it just a flat edge?
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