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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:48 pm 
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I have bought a Moeck rottemburgh soprano and I'm satisfied for quality and sound.

I'm going to play folk-irish music with some friends and I'm looking for a good recorder with more powerful sound but with also a really good sound.

I was thinking about a soprano Mollenhauer dream-edition or a soprano Kynseker (Moeck or Mollenhauer)...
But I' not sure if it is a good choice.
Is it better a really renassaince model?

Are there other cheaper possibilities?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Hi again...I own a Mollenhauer Dream (these aren't as expensive s the Kynseker unless you get one in expensive woods). It's fairly loud and full. I got one because I wanted a soprano that would play over the sound of piano or guitar accompaniment. They also have ones that have a plastic mouthpiece and pearwood body, if you don't want to spend a lot, but the all wood ones are not too expensive, either.

But if you want to play Irish folk music, you can get an Irish whistle in high D, which has similar fingering to a soprano recorder. Some of those are very inexpensive, even for a mid-range model.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:35 am 
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The problem of irish wistle is that it have a diatonic scale and it is not possible to play semitones. (Is it right?)

I have not big problems to buy an expensive recorder (300-400 €) but I can not throw away money.
I can buy an expensive instrument if it is what I'm looking for and if it is very good quality.

If I were sure that the dream recorder is what I'm looking for I would probably prefer to buy the more expensive dream-edition because is hand finished and probably more accurate for intonation and better quality of sound.

But if I were sure to like Kynseker sound and that is enought loud with sound... than probably I would buy Kynseker: it is also probable I will better use it also for other purposes. The same for Moeck renaissance.

The problem is also I dont know how and where to try instruments.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:28 am 
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It's actually possible to play semitones on the Irish whistle. I've managed to figure them out, but they can be slightly different on each of my whistles. You can use various alternate fingerings, or cover half the hole. Since we have alternate fingerings for the recorder, anyways, I try out some of those on my whistle to see if I can get the semitones. A few of them do work.

I really wish I could help you out, or that you lived in an area where you could try recorders. That is one of the hardest things. I was doing research and eBay until we moved and I found a local dealer in Renaissance instruments. I think that recorders are much more popular in Europe in general than in the States. I don't know that many people who play them, and most people still think of them as toys. I don't suppose, if you ever go on vacation to another country, you can check out their local shops and see if you can find one that will let you try them. And bring wipes with you, just in case.

As a side note, I wonder how your local shop cleans recorders between tries. I use an alcohol wipe over where the mouthpiece is, and quickly dry it with another cloth (alcohol is drying, so you have to be careful that it is quick), then I carefully oil the area where I cleaned. I don't suppose this is quite right, but, again, I've not had any problems, and I don't do it very often.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:08 am 
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It's perfectly possible to play semi tones on a whistle and certainly for almost all the music you'll encounter in Irish music a whistle is ideal. For some reason the tone of a recorder doesn't seem to sit well in Irish/Scottish trad, which is the reason you almost never see it played, but each to their own of course.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:17 am 
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bogman wrote:
It's perfectly possible to play semi tones on a whistle and certainly for almost all the music you'll encounter in Irish music a whistle is ideal. For some reason the tone of a recorder doesn't seem to sit well in Irish/Scottish trad, which is the reason you almost never see it played, but each to their own of course.


Which is kind of odd, since a number of whistle players are looking for that kind of "round" "flutelike" tone quality you get in a recorder...

Me, I think what puts the "traditional" folks off is all those "extra holes" (a/o keys) that don't seem to do anything! (When the eight hole recorder itself is every bit as "traditional" as the six hole penny whistle that was invented in the 1840s or thereabouts...but that's an argument for a different thread!)

Anyway, yes to the semitones. It continues to be something of a myth perpetuated by whistlers that a whistle can play in two major and two relative minor keys. I don't think anyone who plays other simple system instruments like recorders or keyless flutes and oboes will deny that forked and half-holed semitones are often far from perfect and anything but "simple" to play! It's not like a piano where you push a button and get a note. But a standard six hole whistle is as capable of chromaticity as any other similar woodwind instrument.

I don't know a whole lot about recorders for folk music, but I'd hazard the guess that if the OP is looking for an instrument that can cut through the stringy accompaniment, you'd probably be looking for much the same as a whistler: a wider bored instrument. I think in recorderland, that largely amounts to a "renaissance" type instrument. There may be other limitations, though.

Another thing to consider is tricked out whistle -- either one with some keys or a whistle with a c or c# pinky hole down below and a c-nat thumb hole up above. Many bespoke whistle makers offer these as options. This whistle here might be a good option! Another possibility would Sweet's 10 Hole Whistle.

_________________
-- A tin whistle a day keeps the racketts at bay.

-- WhOAD Survivor No. 11373


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Yes, the trouble with recorders for whistle players is the extra, unfamiliar holes, and the fact that we have to precisely half-hole the thumb when playing the upper octave, otherwise you get weird sounds. Also, it does take more air to play recorder than whistle because of the wider bore. I do love both recorders and whistles for their unique characteristics, though, which is why I'm dabbling in whistles (as well as Native American flutes).

My Susato whistles are actually a good compromise in whistles if you do want something more "round" and "flutelike". I do have more trouble with the upper octave with these than my more traditional whistles, and they take almost as much as to play as my recorders, but as a halfway point, they work. Dixon also makes polymer whistles, but I have not tried those yet. I've been told they have sweeter sound than the Susatos.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:28 pm 
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whistlecollector wrote:
Another thing to consider is tricked out whistle -- either one with some keys or a whistle with a c or c# pinky hole down below and a c-nat thumb hole up above. Many bespoke whistle makers offer these as options. This whistle here might be a good option! Another possibility would Sweet's 10 Hole Whistle.
[/quote]

I think that the Braker C-recorder-whistle can be a good idea for me:
I'm learning recorder and I have no problems with the thumb positions. Finger positions are quite the same of baroque recorders and this is great.

I hope sound is good! But I think it should be good: it is not so cheap for a wistle.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:27 pm 
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I have some Mollenhauer Kynseker recorders (sop C, Alto G and F) and they are great instruments for the price. The sound is strong, clear and sweet and I think they would work really nicely in a folk setting. As they are "transitional" recorders (ie 16th-17thC) they have a more parallel bore than most (baroque style) recorders. This means that they take a bit more air, are louder and some of the fingerings are a little different.

I find Mollenhauer recorders to be very consistent and good quality for the price.

K


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:10 pm 
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kltb7777 wrote:
I have some Mollenhauer Kynseker recorders (sop C, Alto G and F) and they are great instruments for the price. The sound is strong, clear and sweet and I think they would work really nicely in a folk setting. As they are "transitional" recorders (ie 16th-17thC) they have a more parallel bore than most (baroque style) recorders. This means that they take a bit more air, are louder and some of the fingerings are a little different.

I find Mollenhauer recorders to be very consistent and good quality for the price.

K


Thanks,
At the end I decided to by a Mollenhauer dream recorder (dream-edition). Too many people have recommended it to me and so I decided that I had to try it.
It is good but I had hoped for more volume: more strong sound.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:53 pm 
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whistlecollector wrote:
Another thing to consider is tricked out whistle -- either one with some keys or a whistle with a c or c# pinky hole down below and a c-nat thumb hole up above. Many bespoke whistle makers offer these as options. This whistle here might be a good option! Another possibility would Sweet's 10 Hole Whistle.


I have tried to contact Hans Braker for a C recorder whistle but unfortunately he did not answer me in any way.
I think he should have big problems. He is not writing in his facebook page since march 2016.

So I decided to write to Shearwater and asking if he wanted to try and make a C recorder whistle for me.
It was very helpful and after some experiments and prototipe he made a C recorder whistle for me with a good priece.
It is very good and is working well even if I had to make some minor adjustments: intonation seemed fine but playing known music I realized that could be better.
For this reason I have enlarged a little some holes: the 3 in particular (starting from the bottom).
I have also tried to polish the windows and in particular the labium, that was a little rough and coarse: the sound is significantly improved.
I said it to John Bushby (Shearwater) and he promised to enlarge a little the 3 hole and paying much more attention in future whistles about polisching windows and labium.

If you want to listen the sound these are my new videos on youtube:
https://youtu.be/OyHz_xMVF7k

https://youtu.be/Xt2YSbctmR0

https://youtu.be/p5S4PtQ1r7k

https://youtu.be/2VscrW9X8nc

https://youtu.be/DDUBnCuk6dM


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:05 pm 
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That is great! Is he making these regularly to sell and what does he charge? So, it's basically a D whistle with an added C hole for the pinky, correct? I would actually be interested, because it sounds like a whistle, not a recorder, and it will allow me to play songs that go down to the C, but play in the D major scales. This will also give me an excuse to try one of his whistles, since I don't necessarily need a D whistle as I have more than one that I love already. Or I can ask one of the local makers here in the US if they are willing to try one.

Nice playing (and my hubby, who was looking over my shoulder, also agreed). I can tell you were definitely trained on recorder. I play my whistle like a recorder player, too. I'm still trying to match the "style" that whistle players do, but I'm having a harder time. But, you know, from hearing your playing, I probably won't. It sounds very good. Thank you for uploading these!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:08 am 
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Thanks.
Yes after this experiment now it is possible to buy it. I have seen the priece is 85,95 £ shipping fees excluded.

If you already play a whistle I would like to know what do you think about it when you receive it and playing.
I think it needs quite a lot of air in particular in high register and it is possible that some intonation correction will be necessary. If labium is not smooth dont esitate to polish it!
Finghering is almost the same but there is some little difference for some srmitones. And you can play the highest D and also highest E even if is a little flat and shrill.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:13 pm 
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I actually might try asking Chuck Tilbury if he is willing to make one of these for me. I like his whistles a lot, and he's been experimenting lately. The cost will probably be about the same as the Shearwater one.

I switch back and forth between recorder and whistle a lot. It takes me a few minutes to adjust between the whistle and recorder fingering, but it gets easier and easier the more I practice. Honestly, I'm still cleaner and faster on a recorder, though. It also doesn't help that, on the low whistles, I switch to piper's grip, so it's slower going on those.

I'm really glad you found something that works well for you. And I hope you don't give up on that Mollenhauer Dream. It's really a lovely recorder with a beautiful, full sound. My daughters don't know it, but I bought each of them the plastic head ones for Christmas this year. It will be a treat as they've only really played on the all plastic ones.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:45 pm 
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I discover that Susato makes a C recorder that is almost the same as the c whistle but with recorder finghering. And he make also a g and f recorder "whistle".


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