It is currently Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:29 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
jemtheflute wrote:
Fingering, as has already been suggested, will be standard simple system. See resources in the Fingering Chart Sticky. Or via the bottom link in my signature.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
well i just received the fife.
Is a nice 6 key meyer-style fife, the keys are in good conditions and moves freely, no cracks on the ebony body, very good conditions.
The pads are hard like a stone, i've just ordered a new set from R5-usa to replace this crap.
I've carefully disassembled and cleaned the piccolo, and now is ready to a good repadding...
After a look in our forum, i found this thread
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92226
...so i soon ordered a Susato oriole mouthpiece to make a conversion:

http://www.heritagemusic.ca/store/p246/ ... iece_.html

I know: a wooden fipple has a better look, maybe a better sound but this is the fastest and easy solution i found.
As an alternative i should use a Sweetone fipple:

http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/w ... e/4nat.JPG

Some suggestion/tips to have a correct intonation?

Many thanks in advance
A.

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:06 pm
Posts: 3940
Location: Stout's Valley, PA, USA
Italian Rover wrote:
Some suggestion/tips to have a correct intonation?
There are a few things you need to keep in mind when placing the whistle head on top of the piccolo body. Have I got it right that that is what you are trying to accomplish?

One thing you have dodged is that the nach-Meyer instruments should not have a parabolic head section. So you should not have to replicate a Boehm style bore to preserve intonation.

I would think that you will want to preserve the bore diameter in the new head section based on that of the body where it joins the head. I would think that the Oriole head is going to be too narrow for that, but I could be wrong. It does have a relatively small window. The Sweetones have a larger window and may produce a better tone. So take measurements of the piccolo. The Oriole coupling fits a ~5/8" o.d. tube as I recall. It might work. But check the bore on the body to be sure. If the Oriole is too narrow you could try a Sweetone D head. If that is too small then try a Sweetone C whistle head. It is a little larger still.

Next you have figure out how to position the sounding edge of the blade on the whistle head at the distance equivalent to the center of the piccolo head's embouchure hole with the tuning slide set to where the piccolo plays in tune. You'll want to be able to adjust that distance for pitch and tuning as well. So you are interested in preserving the tuning slide design. This would generally require making a coupler between the whistle head and piccolo body/barrel out a suitable material. Brass tubing is a good choice but any material with a compatible inside bore diameter would work. You'll likely need to machine both ends to fit both the head and the body/barrel.

If you can do that you should be ready to take a test drive.

The right way to do this is to make a custom whistle head from a suitable material, matching both the inside and outside diameters of the piccolo and retaining the aesthetics of the old design. The voicing window should be sized to an area similar to the original head's embouchure hole. But a proper tuning slide could absolve you from that need.

By the way, Stu's instrument is pretty unique. This type of conversion is more frequently done on a modern piccolo. You can look at David O'Brien's Whisolo to get an idea how that is done. Image

Have fun.

Feadoggie

_________________
I've proven who I am so many times, the magnetic strips worn thin.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
great as always, Fea...
Many thanks

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
well: i will use the original embochure, cutting it at the proper lenght and trimming it, so i will slip the mouthpiece on it. I will preserve the original tuning slide.
I will cut the part a little longer to avoid problems, so i'll try both the mouthpieces. I don't know the Oriole's sound i know very well the Sweetone's one and i like it very much.

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:06 pm
Posts: 3940
Location: Stout's Valley, PA, USA
Italian Rover wrote:
i will use the original embochure, cutting it at the proper lenght and trimming it, so i will slip the mouthpiece on it. I will preserve the original tuning slide.
I will cut the part a little longer to avoid problems, so i'll try both the mouthpieces.
That's a good concept. Hope it works out.

This is where I think the Susato joint may not be sufficiently large enough. The Sweetones are still a decent choice. Have you measured the inside and outside diameters of the piccolo head?

Just because you are making a soprano instrument it does not mean that the head also has to come from a high pitched donor.

It is sensible to seek out a head that will mate up with the dimensions of the piccolo head. The diameters of the interface points are the big issues. Then there are tooling and craftsmanship necessary to bring things together. Alto or tenor whistles could be good donors - perhaps something like a Howard low D head (slip-on fit possibly) or Kerry Optima maybe. And I would not overlook measuring a Yamaha soprano or alto ABS recorder heads as well. That could actually be the least expensive and best sounding alternative for a donor mouthpiece. We're talking about Frankenwhistles here. :o

Italian Rover wrote:
I don't know the Oriole's sound i know very well the Sweetone's one and i like it very much.
The Oriole sounds very much like a Susato Kildare or Dublin. You may not be familiar with the those either. Kevin Crawford plays a Kildare in C with Lunasa. Here is a video of Lunasa playing the set they call Island Paddy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9DLP4PobwY

There is a lot of the room in that video. Go to the studio recording if you want something more representative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1s6H_TqWZ4
Your sound will be a bit different in any case due to the dimensions of the piccolo body - that and the variation in the operator. :)

You can contrast that sound with that of Sharon Shannon playing an Abell whistle on the same tune whcih is likely where Lunasa got the arrangement from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsdXrNo3-BE
I think the Susato represents itself rather well.

Feadoggie

_________________
I've proven who I am so many times, the magnetic strips worn thin.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
Feadoggie my friend:
i carfully cutted the head right now, put the piece on my dremel and resized. NICE WORK!
Waiting for the new keypads i've closed the key holes with some putty, slipped the susato fipple on the wooden part and:

DOESN'T SOUND!!!

Ok changed the fipple with the Sweetones one and:

DOESN'T SOUND!!!

I will throw this crap out of the window!!!!!!

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
maybe the bore is too small? :-?

i are in da sad

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 1394
Location: just outside Xanadu
Feadoggie would know, but if the fipple head doesn't sound at all, then there is a serious acoustic mis-match. Wrong bore, or wrong length. :o

Bob

_________________
Not everything you can count, counts. And not everything that counts, can be counted

The Expert's Mind has few possibilities.
The Beginner's mind has endless possibilities.
Shunryu Suzuki, Roshi


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6771
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
More likely a leak or just possibly a blockage. There can't be so much of a mismatch between a D whistle head and a conical piccolo body bore-wise that it would totally prevent a sound being produced. Look for another problem than that.

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:17 am
Posts: 10069
Location: The Inside Passage
It's can take a few tries - or an hour or so of trying - to work out the different embouchure requirements of a piccolo/fife vs flute. Don't give up after ten minutes, but do try taping, blu-tacking, or saran wrapping all the holes* while you're trying.

*A piece of plastic film or bag slipped under the pad, if the pad's still all there. Tape or blu-tack if not.

ps: If you're only now switching from whistle to flute, the best thing you can do right now is to find an experienced woodenflute player and ask them to give it a try, because you're not likely in ideal position to tell if any problems are you or the flute. If that's impossible, keep trying. If it's possible to seal all the joints/keys all the way to the foot, do so, and teach yourself to get a good tone before proceding. It might also be possible to cut a length of 1/2 inch (12 mm.) PVC pipe that's about the length of your flute, and attach it to your headjoint. If you can get a good sound out of that, it's not your embouchure that's the problem.

_________________
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

C.S. Lewis


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6771
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
Um, s1m0n, the OP is not trying to play piccolo, but to convert one into a whistle!

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 7645
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, Earth
I'm surprised no one mentioned a cheater. Might be able to fashion one as easily as add on a new head.

_________________
"Be not deceived by the sweet words of proverbial philosophy. Sugar of lead is a poison."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6771
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
A bit late now. Your man's got a sawn-off piccolo!

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Old "piccolo" flute
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 120
Location: The Great Beauty, Italy
Dear friends, yes: i sawed the head (not a great waste: i purchased this instrument as experimental one) but despite my efforts, the experiment gone wrong.
The bore is really small, 10 millimeters and the fipples i tried (susato, sweetone, waltons in c and d) simply doesn't work.
I'm not a flutemaker, i've built some pvc whistles in the past, i succesfully tweaked the Merlin but this is a too difficult work.
At this point, if there is a sweet soul can help me i will agree to send him the piccolo and let the dirty work to him....

_________________
-It is all settled beneath the chatter and the noise. The silence and the feeling. The excitement and fear. The sparse, erratic flashes of beauty. And then the wretched squalor and the miserable man. All buried by the blanket of the embarrassment of being in the world.- (Jep Gambardella)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.122s | 12 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)