Attack on intitial notes?

[Gobae]

That's the best advice you'll find in these forums. June's and Conal's learning materials are far and away the best things out there, (in my opinion). I wasted way too much time and effort (for years) before finally biting the bullet and getting them both. It was money very well spent. I've made more progress in the last two years than in the prior five. Do yourself a big favor!

For convenience:

http://www.draiochtmusic.com/

http://www.conalograda.com/

It's too bad these aren't directly available Stateside (or downloadable in electronic format). I have such bad luck ordering things from overseas; 2 out 3 orders never make it.

Maybe if I stopped ordering pipe bombs parts..... (joke!)

[Steve Bliven]

June MacCormack's Fliuit books are available in the US through either Whistle & Drum or Celtic Grooves. Haven't checked Conal's but had no difficulties getting it directly from his web site.

Best wishes.

Steve

[Gobae]

June MacCormack's Fliuit books are available in the US through either Whistle & Drum or Celtic Grooves. Haven't checked Conal's but had no difficulties getting it directly from his web site.

Best wishes.

Steve

Awesome! I didn't know about Whistle and Drum nor Celticgrooves.

[Steve Bliven]

[megapop]

Alright, thanks again, this is some great advice. I think I'll go for June's tutor then for now. From what I've read about it, it's completely about in depth ornamentation technique, which would be just perfect. She doubtlessly is a superb flute player. (Her style is maybe a bit... tame for my taste, but technically this make it even better to learn from, I think.)

...before developing things like that "beyond tradition", I want to learn a traditional style right.

I agree with that. In this game there are 2 kinds of "beyond": from the inside, and from the forever outside. I'd say that the preferable choice is apparent enough.

Well, I did begin by acknowledging tradition. But there also is the fun of "playing" a flute, and tonguing can be used to emphasize the timing, or the beat, of a tune. In that sense, it could be fun to experiment.

Well, as for myself, it simply is the Irish traditional style which I enjoy most, and which I'm therefore trying to play. That's why I'm asking technical questions like this one about it.
That said, maybe I'll develop my own flavour of style at some point, but IMHO this should be part of the process, not its foundation.

he's going for the perpetual noob award...

Oh dear. Rereading this thread, it dawned on me that I wasn't meant at all. Admittedly, being rather new to this board as an active member, I've been somewhat surprised - but I've also been quite excited nonetheless. How embarrassing!

[an seanduine]

Well, first: I've never had any problems with Eire Post sending written and printed material from Ireland to the States. Conal was very prompt in sending my tutor.
What I would suggest is that you listen to a number of Youtube examples of both June and Conal. They are both marvelous players but come from quite distinct approaches to the playing (to my ear). This may guide you which to approach first.

For myself, I think Conal's tutor is more directly accessible. I find it more 'granular' in its approach. Conal is a very thoughtful and insightful musician. . .and has put a great deal of thought into getting to the 'bones' of traditional flute playing. YMMV

Bob

[O'Muirgheasain]

Well, as for myself, it simply is the Irish traditional style which I enjoy most, and which I'm therefore trying to play.

You are on the right track! But consider that Irish traditional music, including all sorts of piping, is hundreds of years old. Yet the so-called "Irish" flute came into use only in the later 19th century, at that time as a low cost supplement for traditional piping.

And so, given the technical limits of pipes, in particular not including an ability to tongue a tone, the traditional use of the "Irish" flute does not include tonguing.

However, a flute can be tonged, in fact, and tonguing can help to emphasize rhythm.

[Denny]

he's going for the perpetual noob award...

Oh dear. Rereading this thread, it dawned on me that I wasn't meant at all. Admittedly, being rather new to this board as an active member, I've been somewhat surprised - but I've also been quite excited nonetheless. How embarrassing!

looked more like me playin' with a couple of the Brits....

Attack on initial notes??? Normally, it takes at least a whole A part before anyone attacks me.


... oh wait ...


Anny-hoo ... I agree with this:

a fresh opening note riding a good breath is emphasis enough.

I'd add though that the effect of doing a really good opening breath is pretty much the same as to do some sort of "huh" in any case. Or so it seems to me. Mind, I'm relatively new to this stuff myself, being 4 years into flute. It's such a gorgeous instrument, I wish I'd taken it up decades before.

Huh?

he's going for the perpetual noob award...

[jemtheflute]

Huh?

he's going for the perpetual noob award...

Huh?

Oh Denny, just stop it...... any way you like, even glottally.....


Tongue firmly in cheek here!

[benhall.1]

I wouldn't over-explain it. It gets tired.

Anyway, the thing is, I actually do think it merits a separate thread, as crookedtune said, although not quite in the way that crookedtune meant. So I'll make one in a bit.

[jemtheflute]

I wouldn't over-explain it. It gets tired.

Anyway, the thing is, I actually do think it merits a separate thread, as crookedtune said, although not quite in the way that crookedtune meant. So I'll make one in a bit.

Be sure to start on a clearly articulated note........

[Gobae]

Well, first: I've never had any problems with Eire Post sending written and printed material from Ireland to the States. Conal was very prompt in sending my tutor.

Oh, I have no doubt the issue is on my end here. 4 out of 10 packages that get shipped via the "Mail Innovations" method never arrive here either. ("Mail Innovations" is where UPS or FedEx drop the package at the USPS regional center and it continues via Post.)

And thank you for the suggestion to watch June and Conal on YouTube to get a sense of their styles. I never would have considered that because I dislike YT so much. Wading through far too many really crappy home videos with lousy sound and cinematics turned me off of YT a long time ago.

[O'Muirgheasain]

So my question is this: What would be the best/most common way to give attack to the initial notes after breathing - (1) glottal stops, (2) huffing, or (3) something entirely different?

(3) Something entirely different ...

You must learn to "play" the embouchure of your flute. That cannot be done on a pipe, but that can be done on a flute, having nothing to do with tonguing.

Send PM to me, and I will be glad to explain the mechanics of that.

Or really not articulating those notes at all?

Huh? What? But that is entirely contrary to the ability of a flute!

[jemtheflute]

Belated revival-ish post - of course it is perfectly possible and in ITM acceptable/desirable to start phrases/notes on flute or whistle without any attack from a stopping of the air-stream (tongued/glottaled). Doing so simply by starting (or stopping) the air-flow in an open system (from lungs through throat and mouth to flute) from zero to playing pressure cleanly and evenly without any huffing (or falling away when stopping) takes practice and the control of the torso and abdomen involved has to be learnt, but it's perfectly feasible. This can readily be practised away from the flute - do it while lip-whistling or just imitating a flute embouchure & airstream. Keep your throat open - it is easy enough to keep the tongue still and relaxed, but there can be a tendency to (unconsciously) use a very gentle glottal/deep throat contraction to cut off the air-flow when stopping it even more than when starting it as you try to do this - so be aware and analyse what you do, then make sure you use only the muscles around the lungs. There's nothing "wrong" with using a throat stop thus, of course (on the contrary), but here we are trying to learn fine control of the means of impelling and ceasing the air-flow from without up-stream stops. Achieve that in isolation and then combine it with tongue or throat stops for a wider palette of control and attack variations. Keeping the entire in-body passage of the air-stream open is also advantageous to good tone. Relaxed control!

Have a listen to the clips I've just posted on the clips thread - no tongue and virtually no throat stops involved whatever.