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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Hammy charges more for his Delrin flutes, the stuff is quite tricky to work, I have a Delrin Hammy, which is a very special flute,not just because it has an amazing sound, but it also has an amazing history, so not for sale, when I saw Hammy a few months back, he said that the long body section flexes quite a bit when being turned, its without doubt that he puts the same effort and craftsmanship into the wood and delrin flutes, Hammy knocked out a tune on my Delrin whilst I was there and I have to say it sounds every bit as good as wood, I know there is a whole load of purist out there when it comes to delrin and wood, but I would'nt swap my delrin for anything, same great sound, non of the maintenance or worry.
I also have medium sized hands and have no problem covering the holes.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:43 pm 
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sponge wrote:
Hammy charges more for his Delrin flutes, the stuff is quite tricky to work, I have a Delrin Hammy, which is a very special flute,not just because it has an amazing sound, but it also has an amazing history, so not for sale, when I saw Hammy a few months back, he said that the long body section flexes quite a bit when being turned, its without doubt that he puts the same effort and craftsmanship into the wood and delrin flutes, Hammy knocked out a tune on my Delrin whilst I was there and I have to say it sounds every bit as good as wood, I know there is a whole load of purist out there when it comes to delrin and wood, but I would'nt swap my delrin for anything, same great sound, non of the maintenance or worry.
I also have medium sized hands and have no problem covering the holes.
Delrin is not at all tricky to work with if you are used to working with it and want to work with it. Delrin machines very well with sharp tools and appropriate rpm and feed rates. A Mandrel may be necessary to turn long sections without flexing where you might just mount a piece of timber between centers. Different materials sometimes require different tooling. I can see where a maker might not enjoy it compared to timber. And why they might ask a premium for turning it.

Glad you like your delrin flute. The Hamilton would still be my choice if the buyer requires European origin.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:25 am 
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john Gallagher has made a killer delrin flute and i'm sure would make more.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:47 am 
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I´ve remembered that Mr. Hamilton even plays -or used to play- one of his own delrin flutes. He has one or two words to say about the delrin VS A. blackwood eternal discussion... He thinks that good flutes, equally designed and made from both materials, sound the same...
... Aaaand same words came from Glenn Watson when I asked him. He has made delrin flutes too (at least one). Excellent sound (¡it´s a Watson Rudall design!), but a bit of extra weight compared to a regular wooden flute.

Take your own conclusions, but their knowledge and experienced voice is more than sufficient for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:04 am 
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My guess is that most makers have tried Delrin, and the better makers have made terrific flutes from the stuff - the quality is their craft, not so much the choice of material. The bigger issue seems to be whether a maker enjoys working with Delrin or not; I imagine that a huge part of their original impetus to make flutes was/is to work with wood, not merely to produce flutes. Or maybe it's the stubborness of traditional materials, either from the maker or from the (bulk) of buyers. Still, a significant sufficient number of makers make mainly Delrin flutes, and charge less for them than for their own wooden counterparts, if they make them as well - the material, if nothing else, is cheaper and more readily available.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:38 am 
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eilam wrote:
john Gallagher has made a killer delrin flute and i'm sure would make more.


Any idea on his pricing for delrin? I may be in the market for one soon and if John makes them it would be something to factor in.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:56 pm 
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when we talked about it (john and i), i think that he was wanting to offer a great flute that would not be sensitive to humidity changes.....i think the same amount of labor was going to go into the flute and the price was going to be somewhat similar? but i would find out from john, probably getting a slideless flute.....no rings.....all those options could bring the price down? he did say that the delrin flute he made sounded amazing, and knowing his work, i don't doubt it.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Just got the following as part of an email from John Gallagher and asked him if I could post it here (he said OK):

"Regarding the Delrin flute issue, I just made my first two flutes out of it. One is my small hole Rudall Rose design and the other is the large hole RR. It is a great material for toughness and sound and, I think, quite appropriate. It is harder to work and finish than wood is for a variety of reasons so there is no incentive to charge less than for a wooden flute. However, it does kind of dovetail in with my plan for making a flute that would cost less initially for students or anyone wanting/needing to spend less to get a quality flute. The idea is to make a simple flute that would cost less because it is less work to make. So, for instance, a flute without a tuning slide, rings, and cork assembly but still playing like any of my flutes do. As the player wants a tuning slide later, I'll add it. Same for rings, cork assembly and keys. So you can start with a flute w/o tuning slide, rings, etc. and eventually end with a six keyed flute. I've been calling it the progressive flute. And, it can be made of wood or Delrin."

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:55 am 
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Gordon wrote:
....Still, a significant sufficient number of makers make mainly Delrin flutes, and charge less for them than for their own wooden counterparts, if they make them as well - the material, if nothing else, is cheaper and more readily available.


There are a number of reasons for a wooden flute costing more than Delrin. As Gordon mentions, Delrin cost less than wood. I can order Delrin in exactly the quantity I need from McMaster Carr and it shows up on the doorstep the next day. African blackwood has to be bought years ahead of time, and then seasoned, rough-turned and seasoned some more, so there is a lot of money tied up in inventory. There are hardly any manufacturing losses with Delrin, whereas with wood I always have to reject some pieces at every stage of the process. The worst is when you run into a defect in the wood during the final turning, and have to scrap a piece in which you've invested hours of work as well as the cost. That has not happened yet with Delrin. Another cost with wood flutes as the allowance for warranty returns. Even with the best seasoned wood, there will always be some instruments returned for cracks, loose rings, tight or loose joints etcetera, so this has to be factored into the selling price. Again this does not happen with Delrin. About the only process that takes me longer with the polymer is the final finishing - I have yet to find a quick or easy way to get a really good finish, and still put in a lot of time and elbow grease.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:14 am 
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Over the years I have and had six Copley flutes (same and different keys) that I had acquired second hand in wood and in delrin. The delrin ones sound, play, and look great. Given a choice, I'd take delrin for the reasons Dave already mentioned.

Just a guess but Delrin seems to taint people's choices because it's just 'cheap plastic'. The same thing happened when 35mm cameras and lenses evolved from metal to plastic cladding. Plastic is lighter, doesn't corrode, and bounces in some cases (rather then denting). Even some of today's lenses contain low cost hybrid plastic-glass aspherical lens elements to correct residual aberrations-- outperforming many classic designs-- but the major manufacturers aren't say which lenses have them.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Juan Pablo Plata wrote:
I´ve remembered that Mr. Hamilton even plays -or used to play- one of his own delrin flutes. He has one or two words to say about the delrin VS A. blackwood eternal discussion... He thinks that good flutes, equally designed and made from both materials, sound the same...
... Aaaand same words came from Glenn Watson when I asked him. He has made delrin flutes too (at least one). Excellent sound (¡it´s a Watson Rudall design!), but a bit of extra weight compared to a regular wooden flute.


Funny you should mention this as I was going to suggest Glenn Watson to the OP since he is looking for a Rudall style flute made on that side of the pond. I happen to have the first Delrin flute Glenn Watson made, perhaps the only? I really like my Copley, but physical problems left me needing a flute with a thinner body, and Glenn's standard Rudall style flute seemed just perfect for me, size wise. The Delrin flute Glenn made for me cost the same price as his wood flutes, so not inexpensive, but it's a great instrument and I feel I got my money's worth. Hammy's flutes are awesome too, of course, but if you are not looking for a Prattenish flute then Glenn would be my suggestion considering your location.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:05 am 
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Feadoggie wrote:
sponge wrote:
Hammy charges more for his Delrin flutes, the stuff is quite tricky to work, I have a Delrin Hammy, which is a very special flute,not just because it has an amazing sound, but it also has an amazing history, so not for sale, when I saw Hammy a few months back, he said that the long body section flexes quite a bit when being turned, its without doubt that he puts the same effort and craftsmanship into the wood and delrin flutes, Hammy knocked out a tune on my Delrin whilst I was there and I have to say it sounds every bit as good as wood, I know there is a whole load of purist out there when it comes to delrin and wood, but I would'nt swap my delrin for anything, same great sound, non of the maintenance or worry.
I also have medium sized hands and have no problem covering the holes.
Delrin is not at all tricky to work with if you are used to working with it and want to work with it. Delrin machines very well with sharp tools and appropriate rpm and feed rates. A Mandrel may be necessary to turn long sections without flexing where you might just mount a piece of timber between centers. Different materials sometimes require different tooling. I can see where a maker might not enjoy it compared to timber. And why they might ask a premium for turning it.

Glad you like your delrin flute. The Hamilton would still be my choice if the buyer requires European origin.

Feadoggie


Feadoggie, I've always like your inputs and advice when it come to whistles and flutes.
I'm now into buying my first flute ever, wanting most an Patrick Orwell, in D, with keys, but....
In the meantime, I would like to buy, as my first, an Delrin flute. I have thought about getting one from Copley, since many seems to like them, a lot. But as time has gone, since this tread, I was wondering if you would recommend some others? I think I would like a keyless flute or maybe one or two keyed, if possible. Don't know if the Eb is a good thing to have on an Irish flute?
Other recommendations are "Galeòn Delrin Pratten", " Des Seery" and maybe "McGee Grey Larsen Preferred"?
Any advice and recommendations/suggestions are very welcome, thankyou. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:44 am 
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Apart from my M&E (in F) & my Tony Dixon (in D), 3 piece flutes, I have a Damian Thompson 2 piece delrin (in D) which I like, might be worth your while taking a look at his website.

https://www.thompsonflutes.com/about

This might also help.

https://thesession.org/discussions/42901

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:35 pm 
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dcopley wrote:
Gordon wrote:
....Still, a significant sufficient number of makers make mainly Delrin flutes, and charge less for them than for their own wooden counterparts, if they make them as well - the material, if nothing else, is cheaper and more readily available.


There are a number of reasons for a wooden flute costing more than Delrin. As Gordon mentions, Delrin cost less than wood. I can order Delrin in exactly the quantity I need from McMaster Carr and it shows up on the doorstep the next day. African blackwood has to be bought years ahead of time, and then seasoned, rough-turned and seasoned some more, so there is a lot of money tied up in inventory. There are hardly any manufacturing losses with Delrin, whereas with wood I always have to reject some pieces at every stage of the process. The worst is when you run into a defect in the wood during the final turning, and have to scrap a piece in which you've invested hours of work as well as the cost. That has not happened yet with Delrin. Another cost with wood flutes as the allowance for warranty returns. Even with the best seasoned wood, there will always be some instruments returned for cracks, loose rings, tight or loose joints etcetera, so this has to be factored into the selling price. Again this does not happen with Delrin. About the only process that takes me longer with the polymer is the final finishing - I have yet to find a quick or easy way to get a really good finish, and still put in a lot of time and elbow grease.


I like to hear that you're making time for a nice finish on your Delrin flute. I'm thinking seriously of buying on from you. Best regards from Norway.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:46 pm 
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thomasaasen wrote:
Other recommendations are "Galeòn Delrin Pratten", " Des Seery" and maybe "McGee Grey Larsen Preferred"?
Any advice and recommendations/suggestions are very welcome, thankyou. :)

The typical recommendations I see around here include: Copley, Forbes, Somers, and Shannon. Other names I've read good comments about are: Thompson and Vincenzo Di Mauro. Then there are some makers who also provide Delrin, though the pricing understandable matches their wood flutes (so a little more expensive than the others I've already listed): Paddy Ward, McGee, etc. I've also had an M&E, which was a decent flute at a good price as well. Lots of great options for polymer flutes these days, depending on what style of flute you have in mind.

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