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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:43 pm 
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anoia wrote:
Well, I'm back, and I've done some of my holiday homework (and not just the cork research)! I've also tried winding the joint - it doesn't look too bad:

quite neat and tidy.... :thumbsup:

'course it should be not neat, loose with overlapping. Compressable :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Hi Fiona. Hope you had a good holiday (cork inspections included!). Your shaping down of your cork looks good. Don't make it loose - it won't swell and it needs to be a slightly tight of snug fit - you've got to be able to get it in and yet it must be secure in set position but movable without excessive tightness. It will compress with time, not swell with moisture, which won't penetrate it much anyway, especially if you grease it well - rub grease into it including the face once you've got it a good size as well as greasing liberally to insert. Your lapping also looks good. I take it it is fairly snug and doesn't rock but doesn't jam/grab either? Looks like a bit more grease is needed!

Yeah, we'll come back to pads - can you post a photo of pads sitting in keys off instrument, and maybe also with pads "dry" in keys on instrument, just holding in place by spring pressure? That way I can get an idea of proportions and how they sit......

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:49 am 
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Sorry for the delay - term starts on Monday, and what with the things I should have done, the things my son should have done, and all the chillies I bought last weekend, I'm having to leave this to odd moments.

Here are some pictures:
Image
The larger of the two sizes in each key.

Image
The smaller sizes.

Image Image Image Image
In place, roughly.

These aren't very good, as it was hard to get the angle right, even with blutack (pinktac?), but I hope they are useful anyway. The old pads are much less cylindrical, () rather than [], though a similar thickness at the centre.
Thank you for looking!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:08 pm 
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jemtheflute wrote:
I have a pre-written Word doc. on thread lapping which I can e-mail you if you like.

Hi Jem, could I please get a copy too? (Want to redo the joint on my Sweetheart flute, which I've previously tried by intuition but never been totally satisfied with.)

Thanks
P

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:20 pm 
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Peter - done :)

Fiona.
OK, the ones in the G# and F keys look pretty OK, and maybe the one in the Eb key. the one in the Bb key certainly looks too big/fat. You said you have some a half mm smaller? What do those look like? Provided they'll cover the tone-hole properly, I'd say the next smaller pad would definitely be best in the Bb key. One thing you will find is that, when you fit them in with shellac/sealing wax, they do kind-of set/squash further in than you expect with a dry fitting, especially when you "float" them and press the key cup down on them in their beds.

Bear in mind the old pads have been squashed for donkey's years! I'd be inclined to try the G# and F for real and see how they go.

Melt a drop of your sealing wax into the key cup - you won't need much. if you move fast you may get the pad onto it while still liquid, but if not, hold the key with pliers and warm the back of the cup (with drop of was in it) up with a spirit lamp (if you have one) or a fag-lighter. Then place the pad onto the molten wax/shellac. Just get it fairly squarely set, but don't worry too much.

Now mount the key on the flute body and, holding the key open (with a cloth or glove to protect your fingers) use your flame to heat the cup again - do it at an angle which lets the heat rise past the flute as much as possible to avoid scorching the wood, though it won't scorch too easily - and obviously try not to burn the edges of the pad. When the pad rises because the wax/shellac has melted. close the key and press it down. (This is called "floating the pads in".) Check the pad is centred over the tone-hole and not catching the edges of the key-bed etc. The adhesive will set pretty fast, but you can reheat and adjust more-or-less as much as necessary. Having a blunt probe (table knife blade, manicure gadgets....) of some kind to push the pad around while adjusting it is handy. When you have done all 4 keys and visually checked their action and rise, try a suck test on the body to see if they're sealing OK. If you can post photos of them both resting closed and held open, I can advise again about any action adjustment or any reported problems.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:38 am 
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jemtheflute wrote:
Peter - done :)

Thanks, Jem...

Great to stumble into this thread and find this depth of knowledge on tap! :-)

Cheers
P

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:59 pm 
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A fiddly job, which I haven't done very well. However, here goes:

Image
The Bb key with the smaller pad resting in it

Image
G♯ closed

Image
And open

Image
F closed

Image
And open

I haven't tried the Eb yet.

The F feels OK, but the G♯ seems to sit too far back and not move very far or firmly by comparison. It's more to do with the shape of the key than the way the pad fits though. This picture was taken before I moved the pad as far to the edge of the key as I could (less than 1mm), but it is still nowhere near centred over the hole.
Image
Something leaks slightly, and I think it's that, but I've run out of fingers and assistants for tonight.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:26 pm 
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The Bb looks OK with the small pad to me - so long as it will seal the hole, go with that. I think the rise is probably going to be fine.

The next two are sealing-waxed in, yes? The F looks fairly OK, though the key-cup is twisted (down at L in those pics) - I should have thought to suggest you check that kind of thing first*. It may work OK, but my perfectionist eye would be irritated - I'd have the pad out, carefully twist the key-cup with flat pliers to get it level to the bed - but mind you don't alter its angle longitudinally to its shaft if that is OK - and then start over with the pad - and get it central to both key and bed.

*It's a good idea to check the action of the keys in all 3 planes before padding, visualising where they will line up relative to their beds at the height they will be with a pad fitted. Carefully bend them so they are centred in the bed without catching the edges and set them so the plane of the edge all round is parallel to the plane of the bed when held at the height they will stand closed at with a pad inserted (putting a pad in loose and eyeballing it will help here). Parallel, smooth surfaced pliers are invaluable tools for making adjustments with minimum tool-marking, but ordinary pointy ones will serve. Don't be scared of very carefully and slowly bending the metal small amounts. Be especially careful not to crush or seriously deform the cup, though - not easy to get back right if you do, though on this type of cast salt-spoon key it's less of a risk than on the later flatter cups with perpendicular rims!

Apart from originally relatively cheap/crude keys which were never all that carefully set up when new (!I see loads of this!), that is probably also the issue with the G#. I agree the pad must be leaking from the impression visible on it and you are right you can't push the pad much further forward in the cup. Bending the arm's curve a little more open/the cup up a little on the arm (with pliers - not easy! - and beware of distorting the cup) may help as that will open out and extend the action a bit, but don't go too far or the cup edges won't be near-enough parallel to the bed at pad height. I also think you might also find the next size smaller pad may do better as it will fit deeper into the cup, allowing it to fall further, which given the angle of rotary motion involved will also let it reach further. The hole size won't be a problem judging from the impression on the present pad.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:44 am 
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Hey Fiona/anoia.... did you finish up OK? How has it turned out?

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