Classical orchestral flute, fully keyed - in Delrin?

[Celtpastor]

Now, here's the Problem: A good friend of mine, classical flute player (the one out of Silver, fully keyed, thus closed fingerholes) fell in love with the Sound of my Seery. So she searches for a Derlin-Flute now, but NOT an Irish-Flute, but a classical, fully keyed (thus without open Fingerholes) Flute out of Delrin. Who makes anything like that?

[benhall.1]

Not a direct answer ... but, if she likes the sound of the 'Irish' flute, wouldn;t she be better getting one of those wooden head joints made for her own classical flute body? Then she'd just be able to swap headjoints when she wanted a different sound.

[hans]

I think your friend may suffer from the misconception that the material determines the tone of a flute. It is not the Delrin which makes the sound. If your friend is looking for a dark and reedy sound from a Boehm system flute, she should investigate what is possible with changing the embouchure (she may well know this), or get a flute head with an elliptical embouchure cut, perhaps a new wood head for her Boehm flute. But better get a traditional wooden eight key flute, the classical orchestral flutes of the 19th century!

[cross posting with Ben]

[kkrell]

Now, here's the Problem: A good friend of mine, classical flute player (the one out of Silver, fully keyed, thus closed fingerholes) fell in love with the Sound of my Seery. So she searches for a Derlin-Flute now, but NOT an Irish-Flute, but a classical, fully keyed (thus without open Fingerholes) Flute out of Delrin. Who makes anything like that?

Perhaps this will do:

The Guo Instruments Grenaditte (composite) flute
http://www.gflute.com/en/?page_id=453#4

Here's a video:
Geoffrey Guo Flute - Philippe Barnes & Niall Keegan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbJ1Qaho4rE

I tried one at the National Flute Association Convention last month.

Kevin Krell

[jemtheflute]

Or there's always Ebonite! (Though finding good condition antique ones that aren't High Pitch can be awkward, and I don't think any modern makers are offering Ebonite models.)

[tin tin]

No idea how these sound, but they're rather intriguing: http://www.matitflutes.com/

I agree with the suggestion to try a wooden headjoint on the silver flute. http://www.larrykrantz.com/woodmake.htm

[Casey Burns]

Its not the material and its not the head joint. Its the strongly tapered bore of the 19th century design, as opposed to the essentially fife-like cylindrical bore of the Modern flute. Which is really a fife.

There were Boehm flutes made with such a bore (usually the narrow French bore used on 5 keyed flutes made in Paris) by such makers as Louis Lot and Buffet.

Claire Soubeyran makes these - see http://www.soubeyranflutes.com/fr/catalogue/buffet

Her contact info:
Claire SOUBEYRAN
26 rue de la république
95650 BOISSY L'AILLERIE

Tel/Fax : +33 (0)1 34 66 92 83
Mail : csoubeyran@free.fr

[Herb]

I've not played Ms Soubeyran's instruments, but I have played several conical Boehm system Louis Lots. They are marvelous, and really do occupy the "middle ground" between simple system conical and cylindrical Boehm flutes. The very lightweight ring keys are also a joy...

The (very)modern flute maker, Bickford Brannen made a few more contemporary wooden, conical Boehm flutes, but apparently they didn't catch on commercially. Every once in a great while one pops up for sale.

[jemtheflute]

Such as this early French conoid Bohm, which sold recently on eBay for a quite modest sum considering.....

However, one would expect this kind of flute to have more a "French School" sound - light, sweet, penetrating, but not with the reedy earthiness of the English School.

I agree with Casey that a significant part of the typical ITM/English School sound comes from having a conoid bore, but the English School sound ideal continued well into the Bohm era (see this useful website) and certainly could be attained on a Bohm flute, as also evidenced by the sound made by the likes of Paddy Carty or Billy Clifford on their Radcliffs - different mechanism, but still a Rudall Carte Bohm-bodied flute with an elliptical embouchure. As Calum Stewart's experiences in exploring his Bohm-tubed Simple System Rudall Carte show, the Bohm tube does tend to generate a more open sound more evenly, but with experience and the mind's ear "image" of what one wishes to achieve, it can certainly make the kind of sound we favour, as well as much more. I think embouchure cut is even more significant than flute body type or material. There are several makers (e.g. Abell) who make wooden Bohm heads with a variety of embouchure cuts, and I agree with Ben's suggestion that would probably be the easiest and most direct way for the OP's friend to try to find a way to emulate the sound of the Seery. And of course, one can visit a modern flute emporium and try myriads of different heads........

The Delrin Seery would not sound significantly different from a wooden one, IMO. With an appropriate embouchure approach, one can emulate that sound to significant degree on a Bohm flute, probably more readily on a wooden one and with an elliptical embouchure cut. However, part of what the OP's friend will have heard will not simply have been the tone colour generated by the embouchure cut and the bore profile (and his own embouchure), but also the effects upon articulation of fingers operating directly on open tone-holes - and that no Bohm flute can emulate, not even a pierced platter French style one - and that is what tends eventually to lead Bohm players who get seriously into trad music to invest in a simple system flute of some kind - they may be able to make the right tone, but other stuff just doesn't come quite as well. (Before the pens get sharpened.....I know I mentioned Carty and Clifford and that Madden and others do fine jobs on Bohm flutes..... but that doesn't make me change my view just expressed.)