Eureka! it's because the wood shrinks!

[Thalatta]

Unashamedly, I will tell you what I dreamed last night (which followed a gig playing flute for two hours):

In my dream I came to the conclusion that many antique flutes are out of tune (sharp high notes, flat low notes) because the whole length of the bore shrank minutely over 150 years or so... and in my dream I dreamed that I was revealing this conclusion to the chiffers, and I dreamed that everyone would say "wow, you're a genius, none of us ever thought of that before, here's a check for one million - sorry, one HUNDRED million dollars, noohoo hahahahar"...

Then I woke up. But thought I'd throw the conclusion on the table anyway. Am I right? did bore shrinkage put the old flutes slightly out of tune? Which would suggest that initially they were potentially perfectly in tune... And which would suggest in turn that in 150 years the Olwells will be slightly out of tune and the makjers of the future will be wondering why on earth Pat Olwell made flutes that were out of tune? Hehehe...

Am I daft or what? It's almost the summer holidays!!!

[LorenzoFlute]

wow, you're a genius, none of us ever thought of that before, here's a check for one million - sorry, one HUNDRED million dollars, noohoo hahahahar

[Terry McGee]

I hesitate to put this forward, Thalatta, but current research suggests you are probably right. But the wood is unlikely to be shrinking on its own behalf (assuming the maker used well seasoned wood). It's shrinking because it was constrained and subjected to humidity cycling. The fascinating thing from my point of view is exactly what you hypothesised. I haven't yet done any computer modelling, but my expectation is that it will explain at least some of the syndromes we can not so far explain in old flutes.

Perhaps more of a worry is why you should be dreaming such stuff. Be careful, or you'll end up like me!

Heh heh, Othannen. Some of us might have thought of it before, but as yet no-one has proven it!

Terry

[david_h]

That's a relief Terry. My first thought was that you may have suffered an accident and needed another channel of communication.

[LorenzoFlute]

Of course Terry, I was just being silly by quoting what Thalatta dreamt
One thing is to have an intuition, another thing is to prove it. Just like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poincar%C3%A9_conjecture

[Thalatta]

The Poincaré conjecture has always been so obvious to me that I just simply refuse to explain it to people if they can't just get it. Then this Russian guy came along and explained it (where he got the patience I don't know) and got a check for one million - sorry, one HUNDRED million dollars, noohoohoo harhahahar! But let's get back to the point in question: me, being a genius short of money...

Glad my intuition seems to have been on the right track. Terry, that was one of my less worrying dreams! My other dreams involve you sending me an email that says "hi Shane, I would like to offer you two of my flutes, a nice Bb and a lovely D, just because you're a nice person."

[Gabriel]

To my experience bore shrinkage has a far bigger influence on bore (flute) performance than tuning, but the influences are there, that's a fact.

[Thomas-Hastay]

Historical woodwinds do not always follow "The American Piano Forte Scale", which is based on the frequency A = 440. Sharp pitch (A = 446) and Flat pitch (A = 435) were also used in different parts of Europe in the last century(approx). There was also a period of "Just Intoned Pitch" that was recently popular with Temperment based on Natural Harmonic Intervals.(Equal Temperment Intervals are based on the 12th root of 2)

Changing the Frequency Standard and Temperment can change the placement and spacing separation of the toneholes dramatically. Large changes in frequency intervals between toneholes should not be "assumed" because of wood shrinkage.

[Casey Burns]

This shrinkage is very easy to explain especially in blackwood.

People frequently ask me what I do for a living and I hesitate to tell them I make flutes. If I do, then I have to hear about someone's cousin's daughter's niece's friend who played the metal flute for 6 months in the 5th grade in 1968 before she took up the trumpet and boys and I am not really interested in collecting such information over and over.

So what I tell them is this. I make these things. They are made from a black substance, about so so long, and have a hole down the middle of them their entire length and that I make many of these over time, now measuring a few miles if set end to end. Thus what I tell them is that I manufacture is several linear feet of "Black Hole" yearly. They usually walk away with a sort of an enigmatic deer in the headlights stare after that, and avoid coming near me at parties.

So what you are seeing is the very beginning of these instruments headed towards inevitable singularity. Its a slow but measurable process that will take several million or billion years though some are saying it will happen as early as next October or when the Mayan Calendar ends.

I am surprised that few have heard of this phenomenon. The great flute maker Hawkings (He shortened his name to Hawkes to save type before he joined Boosey), has known and published about this for years.

Casey

[Gabriel]