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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:35 pm 
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I'm trying to figure out how much plasma I'd have to sell to cover this: :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/Abell-Flute-Pink-Iv ... 500wt_1138

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Plasma won't do it...think organs my friend - if you still have 2 good kidneys, you should be good to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:20 am 
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You can buy an Olwell six-key cocus for a lot less.... though Chris Abell's flutes are gorgeous.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:38 am 
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Purtiest damn typewriter I ever did see...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:36 pm 
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A-442 :-? Is that typical of a boehm style flute?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:38 pm 
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whistleboy wrote:
A-442 :-? Is that typical of a boehm style flute?


2 cents sharp is hardley audable; if anything it will make the instrument sound 'brighter' rather then out of tune.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:48 pm 
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whistleboy wrote:
A-442 :-? Is that typical of a boehm style flute?


It seems to be fashionable these days.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:03 pm 
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whistleboy wrote:
A-442 :-? Is that typical of a boehm style flute?


It has seemingly become quite common these days - the old pitch creep is back, led by America this time! Thing is, so far as I know only flutes are doing it- and it is not clear to me whether they have re-scaled the flutes to a complete 12TET A=442 scale or just cut the head shorter on a 440 scale. Anyone know?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Actually the flute is tuned to A442 this is the flute pitch since 1982, makes them a little brighter, and seem to help with the projection.

I prefer the A440 flutes myself, or a newer one with a different head joint to get that deep, dark tone like the old pitched flutes.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:07 pm 
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piperman07 wrote:
Actually the flute is tuned to A442 this is the flute pitch since 1982, makes them a little brighter, and seem to help with the projection.

I prefer the A440 flutes myself, or a newer one with a different head joint to get that deep, dark tone like the old pitched flutes.

Cheers,
Steve


I thought the A=442 means the flute with the headjoint pushed all the way in plays a little sharp, but pulling out the headjoint a little, where a put and most other players put theirs, makes it A440. Gives the player a little leeway to play a little sharper if needed. I've also heard that some orchestras play at A442 and maybe that's why flutes are tuned to that frequency or have the capability of playing there.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:09 pm 
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So, if "some orchestras" are tuning to 442...... a couple of Hz is no trouble for strings, but it means a complete new/spare set of woodwind and probably brass instruments, not to mention tunes percussion. Are they building 442 glocks, xylos, sets of tubular bells, etc? Are they tuning pianos to 442 (not so big a problem), not to mention celestes, glass harmonicas (the proper ones with spinning glass discs/bowls, not the party trick with glasses...) etc?

Would flutes go it alone in this and leave the oboes and clarinets on 440, or do they too have to have multiple instruments? I bet bassoonists don't want to know!

Back to the bad old days of variable pitch standards according to where you are, and a general upwards creep, like I said!

On the other hand, if it is just the flutes being sharp to "brighten" them and "increase penetration", we've been there before too! And it is back to flutes being always out of tune!

Deja vu - or at least, entendu!

Akiba, Bohm flutes usually have a very small amount of sharpening capacity anyway - they are not built to be at their specified pitch with the head rammed right home. Given how pernickety the Bohm flute world has become about "perfect tuning", playing a flute with a 442 scaling with the head pulled out to 440 or a 440 scale with the head pushed in to 442 ought to be utterly unacceptable (and painful) to them! What would be the point in all that fuss about gradations in the scale tuning most folk just can't hear?

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Last edited by jemtheflute on Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:10 pm 
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The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:24 pm 
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My rank amateur opinion, I had two Bb fifes. One was large bore and the other was wide, both play A440. The smaller bore had less of the lower harmonics, I believe. It sounds "brighter" instead of "rich". Is there not other ways to make something sound "bright"? Embouchure size?, holes? 7.85 cents is nothing to me, but I am a hack and think that the flexibility of most any fife, not to mention something that has a tuning slide, should be easily compensated. Again a hack, but how out of tune will the scale be with a 7.85 cent difference if you adjust it by 7.85 cents?

As a flute player, it is not an issue, Other instruments seem to have much more fixed tuning.

Edited for proper cents.

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Last edited by I.D.10-t on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:15 pm 
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jemtheflute wrote:
So, if "some orchestras" are tuning to 442...... a couple of Hz is no trouble for strings, but it means a complete new/spare set of woodwind and probably brass instruments, not to mention tunes percussion. Are they building 442 glocks, xylos, sets of tubular bells, etc? Are they tuning pianos to 442 (not so big a problem), not to mention celestes, glass harmonicas (the proper ones with spinning glass discs/bowls, not the party trick with glasses...) etc?

Would flutes go it alone in this and leave the oboes and clarinets on 440, or do they too have to have multiple instruments? I bet bassoonists don't want to know!

Back to the bad old days of variable pitch standards according to where you are, and a general upwards creep, like I said!

On the other hand, if it is just the flutes being sharp to "brighten" them and "increase penetration", we've been there before too! And it is back to flutes being always out of tune!

Deja vu - or at least, entendu!

Akiba, Bohm flutes usually have a very small amount of sharpening capacity anyway - they are not built to be at their specified pitch with the head rammed right home. Given how pernickety the Bohm flute world has become about "perfect tuning", playing a flute with a 442 scaling with the head pulled out to 440 or a 440 scale with the head pushed in to 442 ought to be utterly unacceptable (and painful) to them! What would be the point in all that fuss about gradations in the scale tuning most folk just can't hear?


Hi Jem,

Not professing to be the expert, just putting out ideas and hoping to hear from someone who is an expert (perhaps MT Guru).

I've also heard that clarinetists need to mold their tunings in order to play well and blend in better with strings. Flutes being at 442 may have a pleasing and more satisfactory effect than at 440. So let's not bemoan tuning or this or that until we know the facts. Flutes seem beautifully in tune in all the orchestras I've heard today--they must be doing something right.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:01 am 
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It's actually 442Hz vs 440Hz, which is a 2Hz difference, not a 2 cents difference. 442Hz vs 440Hz is 7.85 cents, which is still pretty small change. It amounts to about 2mm movement of the slide, which is insignificant compared say to the effects of warming, or the difference between players.

I don't know if any makers actually make differently scaled bodies for 440 or 442Hz models - I can't imagine it. You'd need to get the scaling very accurate before you'd notice the difference!

Sooner or later someone will start to promote their range of flutes "in the new 442.4Hz standard".

I wonder if the Valgon Rings people offer different models for 440Hz and 442Hz? I'm thinking of offering blackwood ones for ITM. And models for the tenor banjo, bouzouki and bodhran.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/harold.gomez/flute.html

Terry


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