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What in the World?! Who Made This 5-key Flute?!
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Author:  Suzie [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  What in the World?! Who Made This 5-key Flute?!

Ok, so I recently purchased a wooden 5-key flute with block-mounted keys and, until I receive the flute in the mail, I was hoping to find out some information regarding the flute...

Here is a small photo collage of the flute:
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Unfortunately I tried posting this same thread before but *slaps forehead* clicked the 'Preview' button, thought it'd saved and closed the tab! D'Oh!

Anyhow... The flute reminds me of German simple-system flutes with the style of the bands and keys. The finger-holes (toneholes/whatever) are Pratten-esque in style with larger A and E toneholes and I find it a bit odd that there's no C-natural key. I was chatting with a friend about the flute and they suggested a similarity to flutes made by Eugene Lambe due to E.L. incorporating German styles in his flutes. *shrug*

As far as I know the footjoint is NOT removable (I'll find out soon enough!) and the body is 1-piece. It was my understanding that resonance holes for the low C# and low C were more of a modern feature/option although this flute appears older?

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks! -S

**Update: I just sent an email over to Mr. Lambe in hopes that he responds!**

Author:  daiv [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:44 am ]
Post subject: 

it doesnt look german. it is definitely modern. if they did not want to put plugs on the bottom keys, they would have made it a D foot (no holes below the Eb key). good lucking find out what it is!

Author:  jemtheflute [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:52 am ]
Post subject: 

I agree with Daiv, modern for sure, though the style doesn't shout a name at me. The lack of a C key as well as the "dummy" foot plus block mountings are pretty conclusive indicators of modernity - any antique would almost certainly work up through the keys as it were, so a 5-key would lack the long F but not the C.

From a typological (the study of "types" of artifacts, their development through time as indicated by changes in production methods, features and functionality, fashion....) viewpoint, until about 30 years ago one could have said with some confidence that ANY flute with block mounts would have had to be made pre c1880. Now we have probably nearly as many modern ones as extant antiques! Of course, they will be identifiable as modern by other features even if unstamped/unattributable, as in the present case.

Author:  Aanvil [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 

Hmm... thats an odd one, eh?


I'm with Jem and Daiv.

Those two vented c/c# holes are modern.

Could be a E.L.

Never seen one of his up close though.

I love a mystery.

Author:  Nanohedron [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:23 pm ]
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Nickel silver, big embouchure cut: I had a Pakistani 5-key minus the Cnat key that looked just like that. How's it play?

Author:  Aanvil [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

Nanohedron wrote:
Nickel silver, big embouchure cut: I had a Pakistani 5-key minus the Cnat key that looked just like that. How's it play?



Oh noes!

Author:  Nanohedron [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

The top ferrule on the foot section's different, though, as to my eye it doesn't look like any sort of metal (what's under the Eb key). Replacement job? One-piece body and foot with a cosmetic faux ferrule? Never saw that before.

It's got that signature dome-shaped (and thus hard to remove) endcap, too. I'm pretty sure it's Pakistani. If it is and you have the original case, underneath the the nesting structure you'll probably find newsprint in Urdu, as I did.

FWIW, I was able to play mine, but it took a lot of doing, and it didn't sound all that great. Hope your purchase is a better one, Suzie.

Author:  Jon C. [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

Nanohedron wrote:
The top ferrule on the foot section's different, though, as to my eye it doesn't look like any sort of metal (what's under the Eb key). Replacement job? One-piece body and foot with a cosmetic faux ferrule? Never saw that before.

It's got that signature dome-shaped (and thus hard to remove) endcap, too. I'm pretty sure it's Pakistani. If it is and you have the original case, underneath the the nesting structure you'll probably find newsprint in Urdu, as I did.

FWIW, I was able to play mine, but it took a lot of doing, and it didn't sound all that great. Hope your purchase is a better one, Suzie.

I saw that when it was on eBay, we figured out that it was a Pakistani flute. Was this the one that was a "bull flute"? (whatever that meant)

Author:  Nanohedron [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

"Bull" flute might be all too apt, now that I think of it. Hope not.

Cool avatar, BTW, Jon: Image

Author:  Suzie [ Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

Somehow I completely managed to miss out on the posts where one of you mentioned Pakistani flutes, etc. Still awaiting the flute as I was a hair slow on paying for it since some things came up. No response back from E.L. as of yet so I suppose I'll be on my own once it arrives and will be sure to update this posting here with new pics and info once the flute's arrived. If nothing else I can use it to make a cute little fire in the backyard and roast some marshmallows with it in the FL heat =) Anyhow, I'm looking forward to receiving the flute and messing with it as it seems quite mystical to my not-very-knowledgeable-on-Irish-flute(s) mind. The quality (from the poor quality photos =) ) appears as though it was well-made however the funky ornamental wooden ring underneath the D# I cannot attest for at this time. I was kind of hoping that maybe I'd luck out and it'd have a removable foot and just have the funky wooden sleek-ish ring on there but *shrug* who knows! I just went through my emails again and the person that had owned the flute mentioned that they'd been playing the flute over the last few years and that it bears no makers' stamp... Also *Dear Suzie, LEARN TO READ!* *kicks self* they mentioned that it needs pads and, quite luckily, I have some white leather pads around so I can mess with it as soon as it's been delivered! Now, back to clear my mind with some Boehm flutes that I need to work on! Thanks! -Suzie

Author:  jemtheflute [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:32 am ]
Post subject: 

Suzie, I'm not much further ahead on this, and until you get it, examine it thoroughly and see how it plays, the speculation is just that. Two points occur to me on re-examining the photos, however, that no-one else has yet made. Firstly, although I have no huge experience of them, I have yet to see (or, so far as I recall, see advertised) a Pakistani or Indian made keyed simple system flute with block mounted keys (has anyone else?) - so that fact would improve the odds you have something "real". Secondly, that black-looking ring on the foot socket could well just be tarnished silver - the photos aren't good enough to see really, but it is certainly possible that the keys and rings are sterling; again, you'll know when you get it, but I'd say the chances are better than even that the ring actually does match when cleaned up.

Author:  Nanohedron [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 

jemtheflute wrote:
Suzie, I'm not much further ahead on this, and until you get it, examine it thoroughly and see how it plays, the speculation is just that.


Yes. It may play well, in the end, after all. Report has it that some indeed do. It would be a happy ending, and no harm done.

jemtheflute wrote:
Firstly, although I have no huge experience of them, I have yet to see (or, so far as I recall, see advertised) a Pakistani or Indian made keyed simple system flute with block mounted keys (has anyone else?)...


Yes. ME. You get 'em thru Lark in the Morning, for one. There's no question of this. As I said, I owned one before I had known what's up. They're offered attractively priced as "Lark's Own Brand", or something, but in any case they are Pakistani made, "traditional block mounts" (per LITM's blurb) and all, absolutely.

jemtheflute wrote:
Secondly, that black-looking ring on the foot socket could well just be tarnished silver - the photos aren't good enough to see really, but it is certainly possible that the keys and rings are sterling; again, you'll know when you get it, but I'd say the chances are better than even that the ring actually does match when cleaned up.


Yeah, the footjoint ring is weird. I'd like to know more about that; I'm still inclined to think it's a replacement or strange repair. It's the only odd note to an otherwise very familiar flute to me. I have experience with both sterling and nickel silver metalwork; in this case I recognise the key and ferrule style, and for my money it looks for all the world to be nickel silver, even through a photograph, so my assessment's pretty inflexible, I'm afraid. Even tarnished sterling doesn't look quite like nickel silver to my eye (although a local instrument repair guy made that mistake with my well-weathered sterling keys, and I wondered what sort of eye he had despite his training).

Author:  smoro [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

Once I saw a similar one made by David Williams.
S.

Author:  Denny [ Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

okay.... :D

I does not look anything like the Dave Williams flute that Nano used to have....

Disregarding the obvious the both look like flutes bit....

Author:  Suzie [ Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:38 am ]
Post subject: 

FINALLY! Received 'er in today's mail! Much to my surprise, I think they had electrical tape holding the footjoint on... Below are a few photos. Enjoy!
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SOMEONE here (NOT MYSELF!!) is quite the fan of using electric tape as the all-time favorite do-it-yourself repair to anything pertaining to this flute! Photos below.

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