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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:13 pm 
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How about merging this list into the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flute_makers?

At present, this list primarily represents Boehm-system makers and only a couple of the most well-known 19th century makers.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:24 pm 
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If any subject is fit to be sticky, it is this one. It would be a 5 star submission, if not for the omission of the world's finest wooden flutemaker, Ganley of Galway.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:31 pm 
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Ben Dover wrote:
If any subject is fit to be sticky, it is this one. It would be a 5 star submission, if not for the omission of the world's finest wooden flutemaker, Ganley of Galway.


Thanks for the compliment, Ben Dover. As the OP explains, this list was not compiled from exhaustive research, so omissions are not intentional. I saw little point in simply copying any existing list and am very happy to add any nominations that I can check out online. Personally I have never heard of Ganley as a flute maker - so I somewhat doubt your claim on his/her behalf, especially as a quick web-browse brings up mostly negative (but not very recent) comments - that is, assuming you mean Tom Ganley, (presumably now formerly?) of Roscommon as listed on Brad Hurley's makers list and discussed on various internet fora; leastways, I can't find anything on any other Ganley. However, as the OP says, this thread is not about assessing the quality of any maker's output, so I'll happily include your Ganley if you can pm me with further information, preferably a website if he/she has one.

Mcdafydd - I don't have any experience of contributing to Wikipedia, though I'm aware of the general priciple of open contributory access and peer review. I might check out the possibility of transferring the list thither or at least linking to this placement of it when I have time. I appreciate the suggestion.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:50 am 
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Still at it! I've just added Friedrich Von Huene's website after following links to it that Loren posted in another thread - lots of r******rs (beauties!) of course, but also stunning flutes (and other stuff - well worth a browse) - and they apparently also stock the Aulos plastic Baroque copies we discuss occasionally.

Anyone want to tell me more about Ganley?

The only "quality control" criteria I'm running on whom I include in this thread are that I have to at least have heard of the nominee for inclusion "on the grapevine" or, if I haven't, that I am able to check out their website if they have one, and that they are currently in active production - so I'd also appreciate pms if anyone discovers a maker has given up and should be removed from the list, as well as any link updates if listed links don't work.

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Last edited by jemtheflute on Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Jem, I'll second your nomination for beatification (i.e. to be made a "sticky" when you die, or even sooner).

Given that the list is already impressively long, and therefore quite an effort for potential buyers to work their way through, I wonder if it would be worth adding a concise and easily coded description of the range of services the various makers offer. I wouldn't suggest you should be responsible for determining that (what a job that would be!). It would be up to the maker or those impressed by their service to code it up and PM it to you for inclusion.

You would put the code in your introduction, so that if a player wanted to find someone to retune their flute they just flick down looking for T. You would decide the code, but some suggestions:

# - Makes flutes up to # keys (0 = keyless)
H - Makes new Heads for existing flutes
K - Adds Keys to existing flutes
R - Repairer
S - reStorer
T - reTuner
O - Dealer in Original era flutes
V - Valuer
(any other services?)

I might thus become:

Terry McGee (10,H,K,R,S,T) http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/

(I always wanted letters after my name!)

And so I would PM you with a request to amend your current entry to that.

For your (and other's!) consideration ...

Terry


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:01 pm 
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I like that idea, Terry, though as you say, it would be a daunting task to compile myself, if not impossible, as many of the websites linked on the list don't necessarily give that kind of information clearly, if at all. For example, I suspect many of the listees would do repair work if asked directly, but don't specify so on their website, and we simply don't know much at all about the design ranges and services offered by those without websites.

I think the only practical way to approach this issue would be to e-mail all the listees explaining the proposed coding (and context of use) and ask them to return their own entry particulars - and I'm not going there either just now! If anyone wants to offer to undertake the task as a contribution to this thread, I'd welcome that and would happily include codings in the individual entries with a key to the conventions in the introduction as Terry suggests, but, PLEASE, nobody jump in and do it without pm-ing me first! Not least because I'd like some discussion of the possible conventions here first and an agreed list settled upon: for example, I'd wish to include codes to show what types of flutes a maker offers, e.g.
Me = Mediaeval
Re = Renaissance
Ba = Baroque
SS = Simple System (keyed)
Bo = Boehm
U = unkeyed modern ITM
HR = specifically Historic Replicas right across the period/system range
C = Cane or Bamboo
F = true Fife
etc.

And an addition to Terry's categories:
E = Ergonomically designed

plus some way to indicate the range of pitch/tonalities available where relevant.

I don't think it would matter too much if not all entries had the codes attached. I am very conscious of not wanting to over-complicate this thread or my task in maintaining the OP list!

Just for absolute clarity:
At present this is a suggestion for discussion. Ultimate adoption of it is not decided upon.
Until we have a consensus on a code convention to be used, no codings should be sought or submitted or will be accepted or posted in the OP list.


Suggestions for additional code categories and for an overall, inclusive convention of codes are welcome as posts for discussion in the this thread.

Thanks!

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I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:17 pm 
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jemtheflute wrote:
I like that idea, Terry, though as you say, it would be a daunting task to compile myself, if not impossible, as many of the websites linked on the list don't necessarily give that kind of information clearly, if at all. For example, I suspect many of the listees would do repair work if asked directly, but don't specify so on their website, and we simply don't know much at all about the design ranges and services offered by those without websites.

I think the only practical way to approach this issue would be to e-mail all the listees explaining the proposed coding (and context of use) and ask them to return their own entry particulars - and I'm not going there either just now! If anyone wants to offer to undertake the task as a contribution to this thread, I'd welcome that and would happily include codings in the individual entries with a key to the conventions in the introduction as Terry suggests, but, PLEASE, nobody jump in and do it without pm-ing me first!


I don't think you'd need to email anybody, just sit back and wait for the PM's to roll in once you put the first one in! I imagine that even the most reclusive of makers either monitor this list or have patrons who do - let The Force do the work. If anyone is concerned that their favourite maker is inadequately represented, let them do the legwork.


Quote:
Not least because I'd like some discussion of the possible conventions here first and an agreed list settled upon: for example, I'd wish to include codes to show what types of flutes a maker offers, e.g.
Me = Mediaeval
Re = Renaissance
Ba = Baroque
SS = Simple System (keyed)
Bo = Boehm
U = unkeyed modern ITM
HR = specifically Historic Replicas right across the period/system range
C = Cane or Bamboo
F = true Fife
etc.


Probably good to separate the types (above) from the services (my previous list), eg by a " - ".

And not sure that you need the U for unkeyed. Why not let 0 cover that in the "number of keys" field?

Nit picking now - should Ba be reserved for Bansuri; we could use Br or Bq for baroque, or Tr for Traverso?

While I'm at it:

NA - Native American
Ch - Charanga (or does that come under SS?)
Dz - Dizi
Qn - Kena / Quena
Kv - Kaval

What about plain cylindrical flutes in metal or plastics, eg Doug's?

C = Cane, Bamboo, Cylindrical? or
Cy - Plain Cylindrical (not Boehm bore)?

And maybe we should add M for Maker to my original list to allow for inclusion of those offering other services such as repairs but who are not actually makers? When Jem hangs out his Internet shingle, for instance.

So, if we accepted all that, I might become:

Terry McGee (Bq,SS10, - H,K,M,R,S,T,) http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/

or, if you preferred Tr and wanted to keep U:

Terry McGee (SS10,Tr,U, - H,K,M,R,S,T,) http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/

Quote:
And an addition to Terry's categories:
E = Ergonomically designed


That's trickier, in that it's a question of degree, rather than an absolute. It is a fact that most simple system flutes are ergonomic compromises - we are none of us capable of reaching the holes where they ought to be. In my range of flutes, some are therefore more ergonomic than others, so do I put an E? The Siccama is the most ergonomic of all, so do I put an E? Does my McG# key qualify for an E? Not arguing against it, but not sure about it!

Quote:
plus some way to indicate the range of pitch/tonalities available where relevant.


Whew, yeah, nice idea but can't immediately see an easy and concise way!

Quote:
I don't think it would matter too much if not all entries had the codes attached. I am very conscious of not wanting to over-complicate this thread or my task in maintaining the OP list!


Agreed, as mentioned above. May The Force be with you.

Terry


Last edited by Terry McGee on Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Heh heh, it is really rather concise isn't it. My entry:

Terry McGee (Bq,SS10, - H,K,M,R,S,T,) http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/

would translate to:

Terry McGee makes Baroque era (1-key) flutes and simple-system flutes with up to 10 keys. He also carries out flute repairs, does restorations on original era flutes, as well as making new heads for and adding keys to original era or modern day flutes. He also offers a retuning service for flutes.

For a group of people who can read music notation or native ABC format, this is a doddle!

Indeed, if we always followed the letters with a comma, you can search out the ReStorers by searching for "S," (provided you select match case)!

Terry


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:47 am 
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Aaaaaah! I KNEW I'd regret this! Too much already! The basic idea is sound, the actuality........

Terry, I don't share your optimism about how many listees will even be aware of this list, or care. I think a good many (who like most things on the internet, only work on their websites when they are new and gradually do less and less to maintain them) might well feel that, by having a website, they have done what they intend to do by way of an online presence, that having a website at all serves the purpose and that the ramifications are not worth the effort. And then there are those who don't have websites and aren't interested in doing so. I'd be surprised if as many as a quarter of the listees would give this kind of info even if prompted by a direct request.

However, I'm still open on this; let's see if we get any more comments and suggestions for a code. Your last version of your own possible code certainly looks effective, Terry.

Just to follow up some points arising from Terry's last two posts:

I'm not convinced about including all the ethnic flute types, and certainly not the non-transverse - only a few of our listees are involved in such (e.g. Hoza) - more of them are Recorder (e.g. Grinter, Von Huene) or Whistle (e.g. Abell) makers as well - and I don't propose to codify that fact.

Re: including a code for specifically ergonomic designs - I take your point, Terry, but judging by the frequency of questions and even threads about this on C&F and elsewhere, this is quite an important issue for many newbies in particular, and a pointer to the makers (e.g. Burns) who specialise in catering to that demand would be helpful.

Charanga - is anybody currently making new SS flutes for that market? I haven't come across any, and I'd imagine there are plenty of French 5-6 key originals floating around to satisfy the demand adequately as yet. Remember, the OP list is primarily a makers list, with some dealers tagged on since the thread is essentially a resource for those looking to buy new-made flutes - all this stuff about other services is at most a secondary adjunct.

Following on from the last point, I'm not planning to start including folk like myself who only work on existing flutes. No "Repairers" category. I might put myself and others like me in the Dealers category (though I see that as aimed at the regular, commercial dealers, not casual small fry) but I don't intend to start putting codes to that section, whatever the outcome of this debate.

On the issue of what pitches/tonalities a maker offers within a particular flute-type, we can look to established practise for Whistle makers/use the conventional pitch notations where C' = "Middle C", along these lines:
Maker X: U & SS<6 in Bb, D', Eb', F', Bb' D''; F in Bb', C'', C#''. (Flute types in bold to distinguish from tonalities etc.)
- which would translate as - Unkeyed and Simple System up to 6 keys in low Bb, concert D, Eb, F and Bb band flutes and D piccolo; Fifes in Bb, C and C#.
(Complex maker specific variations like the probable fact that no maker offering a piccolo is going to make a 6-key one these days could be left to their own communication! Ditto fitting of tuning slides etc.)

A default position that no mention of tonalities offered implies only concert D is available would seem sensible. Brave souls who are prepared to offer any imaginable tonality on demand (Doug?) could say so in words - "any key".
Thus a possible entry for Tipple Flutes (Doug, I'm not suggesting this is right!!!) could be something like:
U Cy any key A- D'' - meaning Unkeyed Cylindrical, any key between Low A and Piccolo D.

I'm not at all sure this is going to happen! It certainly needs some more input from other contributors, please!

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I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Last edited by jemtheflute on Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: too much
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:21 am 
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I think Jem is right.
Terry's idea would be too much work, and turn this simple project into something difficult to read and needing upkeep. A quick check at the website will tell prospective customers what is offered there. It should take less time that interpreting all those initials and abbreviations.
At school I give my students the KISS rule: keep it simple, stupid (I mean smarty)!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:23 pm 
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jemtheflute wrote:
Terry, I don't share your optimism about how many listees will even be aware of this list, or care. I think a good many (who like most things on the internet, only work on their websites when they are new and gradually do less and less to maintain them) might well feel that, by having a website, they have done what they intend to do by way of an online presence, that having a website at all serves the purpose and that the ramifications are not worth the effort. And then there are those who don't have websites and aren't interested in doing so. I'd be surprised if as many as a quarter of the listees would give this kind of info even if prompted by a direct request.


So, if they don't care, they just remain a name and a URL. Easy!

Quote:
Charanga - is anybody currently making new SS flutes for that market? I haven't come across any, and I'd imagine there are plenty of French 5-6 key originals floating around to satisfy the demand adequately as yet.


Heh heh, moi. The older flutes are of course at 435 and often have other tuning issues. The Charanga player has enough issues without the extra load!

Quote:
Remember, the OP list is primarily a makers list, with some dealers tagged on since the thread is essentially a resource for those looking to buy new-made flutes - all this stuff about other services is at most a secondary adjunct.


Nice to be able to narrow down the list of sites you need to visit. There are currently 66 and it's only going to get worse! I think we'll see a wider range of services available as the new makers look for their own niches.

Quote:
On the issue of what pitches/tonalities a maker offers within a particular flute-type, we can look to established practise for Whistle makers/use the conventional pitch notations where C' = "Middle C", along these lines:
Maker X: U & SS<6 in Bb, D', Eb', F', Bb' D''; F in Bb', C'', C#''. (Flute types in bold to distinguish from tonalities etc.)
- which would translate as - Unkeyed and Simple System up to 6 keys in low Bb, concert D, Eb, F and Bb band flutes and D piccolo; Fifes in Bb, C and C#.


Hmmm, I read SS<6 as Simple System with "less than" 6 keys. The curse of a scientific background! How about "SS to 6" or "SS->6"?

Quote:
(Complex maker specific variations like the probable fact that no maker offering a piccolo is going to make a 6-key one these days could be left to their own communication! Ditto fitting of tuning slides etc.)


Heh heh, I certainly have in mind to make a keyed piccolo, even if only for myself! But certainly agreed - the listing should only offer a way of minimising the number of sites the user needs to consult.

So I now look like:

Terry McGee (U & SS to 10 in A,Bb,C,D',Eb',F',D"; Tr, - H,K,R,S,T,) http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/

I guess as long as we fit on one line, that's cool? Would certainly make it easy to narrow down say Bb makers (search on "Bb,").

A thought to the Moderators. I imagine you don't want a vast number of stickies clogging up the head of the list. What about collapsing them into a single sticky called Resources for Flute players. A list like Jem's is one entry in that Sticky, as is a consolidated list of Teachers, a consolidated list of YouTube items, old recordings, an item warning players about Ebay risks, Pakistani flutes etc. Converstations about those items would not be admitted into the sticky but could be in a normal floating thread linked from the Sticky item. Just a thought.

Terry


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Terry, I think you have the most generous website in terms of valuable information conveyed with a great enthusiasm. IMO there is one thing lacking in your home page and I only raise it here because you have made a suggestion to Jem which is a suggestion that you could extrapolate for to improve your homepage.

It would be nice if when we go to your homepage there could be a punchy point form summary of what you do - you know something like
-unkeyed Irish flute (wood, delrin, +/-tuning slide)
- baroque flute
- head restorions
- answering strange phone calls
- etc etc
at the top on the very first page.

I think that if all makers did this it would be a good thing for seekers -
A standard section at the top of their home page which summarised their offereings.

(BTW, is there summer snow at Malua Bay or something?)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:44 am 
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I haven't given up on Terry's suggestion - yet! I just haven't had time to give it any more thought for a couple of days, plus I really would like some input from other members on possible code conventions.....

I've made some additions to the OP list today. I'm surprised - or shouldn't I be? - that no-one had pointed out I'd missed Dixon thus far!

I would appreciate it if anyone who has had any dealings with either Chris Dawson/Rhiannon or Calmont recently could confirm that they are still active. I've checked out Chris Dawson's MySpace page, but whilst it mentions his bamboo flutes, it doesn't say if he's still actively making them or offer any relevant links. Conversely, if anyone knows that either of these, or indeed any of the other listees have given up making flutes, please let me know by pm and I will remove them.
Cheers!

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I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
Low Bb flute: Xmas Eve & The Providence (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Last edited by jemtheflute on Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Location: Actually, now I'm over there...
It's a great list, Jem; I have a very similar list saved on my favorites - I have a few Baroque makers on mine you don't seem to have, from when I was involved in Baroque music, as well as some fife makers. I'll have to send them over to you when I have a moment.

With this in mind, my only suggestion would be to do with flute makers what you did with flute "stores" - that is, break them into a separate groups - flute makers that make (mostly) Irish flutes, and a group that makes purely Early instruments, fife makers, etc. Without this sort of info, I find I spend a lot of time on sites trying to determine what sort of flute a maker specializes in, or bases their work on. Only a few (the Terrys', Noys', etc.) are jacks of all flute trades. If I'm looking for a maker of small-holed Rudalls, for eg, I don't want to spend (too much) time on sites that only offer PVC flutes or, for that matter, Prattens.

Or, you could do what Brad Hurley did on his site list, which is to include a small description beside each link. This works much better, IMO, than a legend of symbols and letters for those of us with feeble decoding skills.


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 Post subject: Another one
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:11 am 
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Another good maker in Switzerland:

http://www.floetenbau.ch/

He might not be the perfect one for Irish Flutes, but for older styles.


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