What a very silly thread. I have not posted a clip and never will. You may make of my posts what you will.
What are you all on about? Post a clip or don't post a clip.
Non-sticky: Not Posting Clips
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Rob Sharer
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Whistlin'Dixie
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ImNotIrish
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Let's hear more Cubitt. It's a silly thread to you, okay. So, explain yourself...Cubitt wrote:What a very silly thread. I have not posted a clip and never will. You may make of my posts what you will.
There's a lot of silly threads out there, but eventually one ends up with a fabric of sorts... if you catch my drift?
Arbo
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Andrew Hollom
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Sometimes analogies are useful in understanding the shortcomings of an argument, so I'll start off with one.
My younger brother, Luke, used to be a downhill mountain-biker, and competed at the national level in the UK in the junior category, and I used to be a cross country racer (at a much lower level!). Back in the 90's, my father, brother and I were at Fort William for a National Points Series downhill race, and as my brother practised the course in sections, my father and I made comments about his riding. Luke accepted my comments with more grace than he did my father's, since I at least rode a bike in racing conditions, and he knew I wasn't a complete lemon (I could make the top 20 out of 200 starters on a good day). However, he didn’t take the advice of our father so well, sometimes dismissing his comments quite rudely. Anyway, we came to a part of the course that was essentially a chicane that cut up from a fire-road into the hill and then jinked back onto the fire-road via a steep drop. Luke's technique was to enter the chicane while braking hard and to roll off the steep drop back onto the fire-road (and then pedal like hell to get back all the speed he lost). I had a good close look and asked if he thought he could take it at speed and fly through a gap between two trees back onto the fire-road, which would have kept most of his speed. This didn't go down well, and I and my comments were consigned to the bin with my old man! With impeccable timing, and announced by the high pitch squeak of hydraulic disc brakes slowing a bike down from about 50 MPH down to about 25 MPH, a professional rider did exactly what I had just suggested! This turned Luke's opinions around, and after a couple of hours practice, he was taking this chicane and a few others in a similar fashion, and was much, much quicker as a result.
My point is that you do NOT have to be able to do something to know that something needs to be done and done in a certain way. I never had the lack of brains required to do down-hilling, but that neither meant that I couldn't comment nor that my comments were somehow invalid because I couldn't put them into practice.
For example, I hold David Migoya’s playing in high regard (one of my favourite artists on WFO 3), and I think much of the time he speaks sense, but just because he’s an excellent player, I don’t blindly believe everything he says. We all have our own minds, and long may it stay that way, irrespective of our abilities. As Grey Larsen (another person apparently held in low regard by some here) says in his book (to paraphrase him) “While we might not all be able to become expert players, we can still become expert listeners”, which would seem to imply that people who love listening to music and its intricacies can make valid comments on it. To put it yet another way, it would seem that some would like to stipulate that people are only allowed to talk about politics, or to exercise their constitutional right to vote, once they’d attained a certain level of political acumen, am I right?
As for Jim Stone, I don't know why he is picked on the way he is. He clearly loves flutes, playing flutes and Irish music (amongst other forms), so don't we all have a lot in common with him? Certainly, he posts a lot, and I read many of them, so I know the highly subjective comments about tone, responsiveness, etc. should all be taken with a pinch of salt (I'm of the opinion that people sound much more like themselves than the flute they play), but why lambaste, tease and ridicule him?
I think that it would be good for this forum if all the "put up or shut up" people would do the latter. A bit more thoughtfulness and a lot less divisiveness would go a long way.
Sorry for being verbose, but I limit my posting to when I have something to say, and while Jim’s 11,000+ posts counted against him, I suspect my lack of posting will still count against me?! If only I held Loren’s middle-ground of 6,500+ posts – Sheesh, over half of Jim’s almighty total!
Andrew.
My younger brother, Luke, used to be a downhill mountain-biker, and competed at the national level in the UK in the junior category, and I used to be a cross country racer (at a much lower level!). Back in the 90's, my father, brother and I were at Fort William for a National Points Series downhill race, and as my brother practised the course in sections, my father and I made comments about his riding. Luke accepted my comments with more grace than he did my father's, since I at least rode a bike in racing conditions, and he knew I wasn't a complete lemon (I could make the top 20 out of 200 starters on a good day). However, he didn’t take the advice of our father so well, sometimes dismissing his comments quite rudely. Anyway, we came to a part of the course that was essentially a chicane that cut up from a fire-road into the hill and then jinked back onto the fire-road via a steep drop. Luke's technique was to enter the chicane while braking hard and to roll off the steep drop back onto the fire-road (and then pedal like hell to get back all the speed he lost). I had a good close look and asked if he thought he could take it at speed and fly through a gap between two trees back onto the fire-road, which would have kept most of his speed. This didn't go down well, and I and my comments were consigned to the bin with my old man! With impeccable timing, and announced by the high pitch squeak of hydraulic disc brakes slowing a bike down from about 50 MPH down to about 25 MPH, a professional rider did exactly what I had just suggested! This turned Luke's opinions around, and after a couple of hours practice, he was taking this chicane and a few others in a similar fashion, and was much, much quicker as a result.
My point is that you do NOT have to be able to do something to know that something needs to be done and done in a certain way. I never had the lack of brains required to do down-hilling, but that neither meant that I couldn't comment nor that my comments were somehow invalid because I couldn't put them into practice.
For example, I hold David Migoya’s playing in high regard (one of my favourite artists on WFO 3), and I think much of the time he speaks sense, but just because he’s an excellent player, I don’t blindly believe everything he says. We all have our own minds, and long may it stay that way, irrespective of our abilities. As Grey Larsen (another person apparently held in low regard by some here) says in his book (to paraphrase him) “While we might not all be able to become expert players, we can still become expert listeners”, which would seem to imply that people who love listening to music and its intricacies can make valid comments on it. To put it yet another way, it would seem that some would like to stipulate that people are only allowed to talk about politics, or to exercise their constitutional right to vote, once they’d attained a certain level of political acumen, am I right?
As for Jim Stone, I don't know why he is picked on the way he is. He clearly loves flutes, playing flutes and Irish music (amongst other forms), so don't we all have a lot in common with him? Certainly, he posts a lot, and I read many of them, so I know the highly subjective comments about tone, responsiveness, etc. should all be taken with a pinch of salt (I'm of the opinion that people sound much more like themselves than the flute they play), but why lambaste, tease and ridicule him?
I think that it would be good for this forum if all the "put up or shut up" people would do the latter. A bit more thoughtfulness and a lot less divisiveness would go a long way.
Sorry for being verbose, but I limit my posting to when I have something to say, and while Jim’s 11,000+ posts counted against him, I suspect my lack of posting will still count against me?! If only I held Loren’s middle-ground of 6,500+ posts – Sheesh, over half of Jim’s almighty total!
Andrew.
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johnkerr
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Arbo, are you talking to me here? I'm not sure because the only clips I have out there are a set of hornpipes and a set of single jigs. But maybe you are hearing the hornpipes as reels, and if so that's the set I played on my Pratten-model Olwell. The set of single jigs was played on my Rudall & Rose flute a month or two after I got it. I've been playing the Rudall pretty much exclusively for the past 6 months, so hopefully I sound better on it now than I did when I made that clip. Perhaps I should record another clip with the Rudall now.ImNotIrish wrote:John,
just listened to your reel clips. Lovely playing. Nice and solid, good steady rhythm. Really enjoyed the pulse throughout! What flute are you playing?
Arbo
And whether it was me you were addressing or not, thanks for the compliment!
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Rob Sharer
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LOGICAL FALLACY: OFT REPEATED ON THIS THREAD:
If player X is outed as being less than a virtuoso, his or her advice will never be listened to again.
Where the janey does this idea come from? Is the counter-proposal "let's not let each other know how we play, so we can keep the whole thing purely hypothetical?" That sounds equally ridiculous to me.
This is a forum to discuss flutes, and the music we play on them. In the first place, it's not an encounter group; there are some fairly serious disagreements that develop between members with opposing opinions about technique, styles of flutes, etc. Second, we're talking about MUSIC here, and you know what they say...talking about music is like dancing about architecture. There comes a time when you've got to let people hear what you're talking about, not read it.
The logical fallacy at the top of my post (for logical fallacy, substitute preposterous exaggeration, if you like) seems to imagine a circumstance like this: Player A asks, "Hi I'm new here. Which hand goes on top?" Player B, a beginner as well, responds, "The left hand goes on top." Player C, a crotchety old b*llix, dashes off, "Hey B, I've heard your clip...how do YOU know which hand goes on top?" B, motally wounded, retires never to post again, and A never figures out which hand to put on top. An exaggeration, you say? I'd say so as well. Even if this situation did play out here, the problem is one of manners. Don't we trust each other and ourselves enough to avoid that? There are beginners who've posted clips here, and whose advice has not been shot down. It's already working out just fine! By the way, the top hand goes on top.
I'd like to hear why people think that no one will listen to someone that they know to be a less-skilled player. Also, what end is REALLY being served by remaining anonymous and mysterious? Is it really an altruistic gesture, intended to preserve a gentle culture of mutual hand-holding? Or are there people here who are kidding themselves and others about how far they've come in this enterprise we're all engaged in? I personally don't see the shame in being recognized at whatever stage of development you've attained. Even at day 5, you've achieved something worthy or recognition; everyone has to go through day 5 to get to year 5. Don't be afraid to be yourself. We'll all understand. Cheers,
Rob
If player X is outed as being less than a virtuoso, his or her advice will never be listened to again.
Where the janey does this idea come from? Is the counter-proposal "let's not let each other know how we play, so we can keep the whole thing purely hypothetical?" That sounds equally ridiculous to me.
This is a forum to discuss flutes, and the music we play on them. In the first place, it's not an encounter group; there are some fairly serious disagreements that develop between members with opposing opinions about technique, styles of flutes, etc. Second, we're talking about MUSIC here, and you know what they say...talking about music is like dancing about architecture. There comes a time when you've got to let people hear what you're talking about, not read it.
The logical fallacy at the top of my post (for logical fallacy, substitute preposterous exaggeration, if you like) seems to imagine a circumstance like this: Player A asks, "Hi I'm new here. Which hand goes on top?" Player B, a beginner as well, responds, "The left hand goes on top." Player C, a crotchety old b*llix, dashes off, "Hey B, I've heard your clip...how do YOU know which hand goes on top?" B, motally wounded, retires never to post again, and A never figures out which hand to put on top. An exaggeration, you say? I'd say so as well. Even if this situation did play out here, the problem is one of manners. Don't we trust each other and ourselves enough to avoid that? There are beginners who've posted clips here, and whose advice has not been shot down. It's already working out just fine! By the way, the top hand goes on top.
I'd like to hear why people think that no one will listen to someone that they know to be a less-skilled player. Also, what end is REALLY being served by remaining anonymous and mysterious? Is it really an altruistic gesture, intended to preserve a gentle culture of mutual hand-holding? Or are there people here who are kidding themselves and others about how far they've come in this enterprise we're all engaged in? I personally don't see the shame in being recognized at whatever stage of development you've attained. Even at day 5, you've achieved something worthy or recognition; everyone has to go through day 5 to get to year 5. Don't be afraid to be yourself. We'll all understand. Cheers,
Rob
As for Jim Stone, I don't know why he is picked on the way he is. He clearly loves flutes, playing flutes and Irish music (amongst other forms), so don't we all have a lot in common with him?
....................................
Thanks for the kind words. I differ only in this: I don't feel picked on,
lambasted or teased. I frequent this board
chiefly because of all I learn about flutes and music
from you guys (gender neutral).
Also I like to drool over pictures of naked flutes.
When I'm not here I'm often writing about the most
obscure and difficult things imaginable. I owe what
little sanity remains to you folks.
This is a normal human community, I reckon;
it's OK with me as it is. Happiness to all, Jim
....................................
Thanks for the kind words. I differ only in this: I don't feel picked on,
lambasted or teased. I frequent this board
chiefly because of all I learn about flutes and music
from you guys (gender neutral).
Also I like to drool over pictures of naked flutes.
When I'm not here I'm often writing about the most
obscure and difficult things imaginable. I owe what
little sanity remains to you folks.
This is a normal human community, I reckon;
it's OK with me as it is. Happiness to all, Jim
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colomon
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- Tell us something.: Whistle player, aspiring C#/D accordion and flute player, and aspiring tunesmith. Particularly interested in the music of South Sligo and Newfoundland. Inspired by the music of Peter Horan, Fred Finn, Rufus Guinchard, Emile Benoit, and Liz Carroll.
I've got some compositions up at http://www.harmonyware.com/tunes/SolsTunes.html - Location: Midland, Michigan
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Errr... because that is exactly what happened in thread that this thread spun out of? Jim may be a crap flute player (I wouldn't know) but there was a lot of truth in what he was saying on the 0-key/6-key/8-key thread, and it was dismissed out of hand with a personal attack on him.Rob Sharer wrote:I'd like to hear why people think that no one will listen to someone that they know to be a less-skilled player.
Sol's Tunes (new tune 2/2020)
As I mentioned, I'm in the middle of seeing it happen in another group ofRob Sharer wrote:LOGICAL FALLACY: OFT REPEATED ON THIS THREAD:
If player X is outed as being less than a virtuoso, his or her advice will never be listened to again.
Where the janey does this idea come from?
musicians. I think whistlethis.com suffered growing pains along these lines
as well. Maybe C&F is immune...
I do agree that the clips make it more fun, and I feel it's a good use of
technology. It's just something to watch out for. Personally, I put more weight
on makers' suggestions in certain threads and more weight on good players'
comments in other threads. It's a bias I'm aware of and lavish in, and it's
completely contextual.
Last edited by fearfaoin on Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rob Sharer
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I just reread the whole thing, and yes, one guy did cross the line. How would refraining from posting clips have prevented this? I agree that it was out of line, but it happened, and will continue to happen occasionally, even in the absence of clips as in this case you've brought up. Trying to connnect the posting of clips with this sort of misbehavior by one member of the community is a mighty leap of logic. Besides, Jim says he doesn't feel bullied so why are you unnecessarily defending him? In any event, let's not let the ongoing conflict between Cocus and Jim Stone dictate how the rest of us do things here. Cheers,colomon wrote:Errr... because that is exactly what happened in thread that this thread spun out of?
Rob