Hello everyone,
Does anyone have any expiriences with a sweetheart Eb flute? I've read through a lot of posts that talk about the D flutes, but I haven't see any that mentioned an Eb, or would they be similar playing flutes? I play a bohem flute in an ensemble here at school and was thinking of getting a simple wood flute to use for some of the baroque music we play. A flute in Eb would be the most practical I think because most of the music we play is written in 3 or 4 flats. I don't really need the big reedy irish flute sound, just something that is balanced and blends well with the other flutes. I know there are a whole lot of other and more expensive options out there, but I'm basically a broke college student. I was thinking of getting one of these in either maple or cherry, does anyone have any suggestions?
Sweetheart Eb flute questions
I've never tried the Eb, but I tried the D last week in either maple or cherry and I thought it was very nice. Seemed easy to play, had a strong tone, and very light-weight. From what I've seen, the Sweetheart flutes are of excellent quality. I don't know why more people don't have them on this forum.
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
-
AaronMalcomb
- Posts: 2205
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Bellingham, WA
At the Lark In The Morning shop in Seattle they have Sweethearts in just about every pitch. These flutes are made out of light woods and also have relatively thin walls. I found the flutes lacked in lower harmonics resulting in a bright but somewhat thin sound. YMMV. I haven't tried any of the blackwood or resonance flutes.
The Sweetheart Resonance really is a horse of another color, a departure from earlier Sweetheart flutes. For instance, when I got my Resonance blackwood (w/o rings) flute earlier last year, Walt Sweet played bottom D on it, and then added three different D's on top of that, although the top D was a bit hissy.AaronMalcomb wrote:...I haven't tried any of the blackwood or resonance flutes.
Hole spacing is about the same as the older Sweetheart flutes, but the holes are a bit smaller, and the body a bit longer and a bit thinner on the outside.
I haven't played the resonance.
I have played sweethearts in D, low and high C,
A, G and F. I like them. They have a lovely tone
and they're very simple, light and easy
to play.
They are not GREAT flutes, not blackwood with
lined headjoints, etc. But there definitely is
a place for them.
The higher pitched flutes/fifes like C, A, G
are very serviceable indeed. I haven't
played GREAT flutes in these keys,
but I think when you get up that high
a pretty good flute is a very good one.
I have played sweethearts in D, low and high C,
A, G and F. I like them. They have a lovely tone
and they're very simple, light and easy
to play.
They are not GREAT flutes, not blackwood with
lined headjoints, etc. But there definitely is
a place for them.
The higher pitched flutes/fifes like C, A, G
are very serviceable indeed. I haven't
played GREAT flutes in these keys,
but I think when you get up that high
a pretty good flute is a very good one.
-
cocusflute
- Posts: 1064
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:15 pm
I have a Sweet Eb that is a wonderful flute. I recommend it highly.But if you are going to buy one don't buy it from Lark - get it from Doc Jones or from the Sweets directly.
The struggle in Palestine is an American war, waged from Israel, America's most heavily armed foreign base and client state. We don't think of the war in such terms. Its assigned role has been clear: the destruction of Arab culture and nationalism.
-
Paul Groff
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:48 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Hi bill
I think the inexpensive Sweet flutes in Eb are excellent value. When I lived in Massachusetts I had a small teaching studio and music shop and some excellent flute teachers sent their students to me to get the keyless Sweet flutes that I picked out on my visits to Ralph's workshop. Even though there wasn't much demand for Eb flutes by beginners, several times I brought back Eb flutes just because I liked those individual flutes so much! I still have a few of those in my leftover inventory, a couple of cherrys and a rosewood.
There was a comment that some of these are light in tone or lack lower harmonics. I do know that they vary somewhat from flute to flute and that tweaking the cork position (and embouchure -- but that's not for the novice) can have a nice effect on timbre. For my taste I prefer the cork a little farther back than their "stock" setup and this does yield a deeper tone in the low octave. Since the cheap models have no tuning slide (though slightly adjustable via the tenon) I used to pick the ones that played a hair sharp with the tenon fully in, and with internal tuning that would be aided rather than hurt by setting the cork back a couple of mm. YMMV.
Like all wooden flutes you will have to be carefull controlling the rate of water uptake and loss by the flute and the humidity of its environment....oiling, swabbing, tupperware, etc. (You will get help on that from this site and/or from Ralph if you buy one from him). But compared to other wooden flutes in this price range, the Sweethearts are pretty solid and tough if you use reasonable care.
Paul
I think the inexpensive Sweet flutes in Eb are excellent value. When I lived in Massachusetts I had a small teaching studio and music shop and some excellent flute teachers sent their students to me to get the keyless Sweet flutes that I picked out on my visits to Ralph's workshop. Even though there wasn't much demand for Eb flutes by beginners, several times I brought back Eb flutes just because I liked those individual flutes so much! I still have a few of those in my leftover inventory, a couple of cherrys and a rosewood.
There was a comment that some of these are light in tone or lack lower harmonics. I do know that they vary somewhat from flute to flute and that tweaking the cork position (and embouchure -- but that's not for the novice) can have a nice effect on timbre. For my taste I prefer the cork a little farther back than their "stock" setup and this does yield a deeper tone in the low octave. Since the cheap models have no tuning slide (though slightly adjustable via the tenon) I used to pick the ones that played a hair sharp with the tenon fully in, and with internal tuning that would be aided rather than hurt by setting the cork back a couple of mm. YMMV.
Like all wooden flutes you will have to be carefull controlling the rate of water uptake and loss by the flute and the humidity of its environment....oiling, swabbing, tupperware, etc. (You will get help on that from this site and/or from Ralph if you buy one from him). But compared to other wooden flutes in this price range, the Sweethearts are pretty solid and tough if you use reasonable care.
Paul
-
jemtheflute
- Posts: 6969
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
- Contact:
I've never tried a Sweet in Eb, so can't comment on their playing qualities, but I did have a go on one of the newer style Ds a while back and was very pleasantly surprised - I hadn't tried a Sweet of any kind, flute, piccolo or whistle for years, and when I'd had quite a few goes on all three probably 15-20 years ago I'd always found them poor, matchwoody, roughly finished, not designed to my taste profile-wise and generally not worth paying for. The one I tried last spring was easily the best player of about five different beginner level keyless flutes (including Dixon and Seery) on the Hobgoblin/Johnny Roadhouse stall at Chester Folk Festival, and nicely made and finished to a much pleasanter on the eye and in the hand design than of old.
A practical/technical word of warning, nothing to do with how Sweets or any other possible Eb flutes play sound-wise, but to do with their technical capacities and limitations: just bear in mind that if you do get a keyless Eb folk flute, it won't cross finger very well for accidentals in classical music and you will either have to transpose all your parts down a semitone if you want to read Eb as a 6-finger D etc., or you'll have to relearn all your fingering-to-pitch/note name-to-notation correlations to read the printed part. So it may not actually make your life any easier! 3-4 flats is not bad on a Boehm flute.
Relatively little Baroque flute music was written in such flute-unfriendly keys (and all the more unfriendly to Baroque or Simple System flutes!). There's plenty of recorder music that goes there, however, and it is all to often printed (especially in pre 1970s editions) as being for "flute" - and it was and still is very commonly played on Boehm flute (viz. many Vivaldi concerti etc.). Have a look at the tessitura (range) of the part: if it doesn't go below F in the bottom space on the stave, it was written for Treble Recorder ("Alto" in yank-speak, I think) which is of course "in F" and has easier access to multi-flat tonalities. If the range goes down to C below the stave and/or it is in C or "flatter" keys, then it was probably for Descant ("Soprano") Recorder as Baroque flutes didn't have low C. If I'm right and you are playing recorder repertory, you might be better off investing in and learning that instrument for those pieces. As a chromatic instrument it will have much greater facility with the accidentals you are likely to encounter in that type of music which a diatonic folk flute will struggle with. Otherwise, get into proper Baroque flute!
A practical/technical word of warning, nothing to do with how Sweets or any other possible Eb flutes play sound-wise, but to do with their technical capacities and limitations: just bear in mind that if you do get a keyless Eb folk flute, it won't cross finger very well for accidentals in classical music and you will either have to transpose all your parts down a semitone if you want to read Eb as a 6-finger D etc., or you'll have to relearn all your fingering-to-pitch/note name-to-notation correlations to read the printed part. So it may not actually make your life any easier! 3-4 flats is not bad on a Boehm flute.
Relatively little Baroque flute music was written in such flute-unfriendly keys (and all the more unfriendly to Baroque or Simple System flutes!). There's plenty of recorder music that goes there, however, and it is all to often printed (especially in pre 1970s editions) as being for "flute" - and it was and still is very commonly played on Boehm flute (viz. many Vivaldi concerti etc.). Have a look at the tessitura (range) of the part: if it doesn't go below F in the bottom space on the stave, it was written for Treble Recorder ("Alto" in yank-speak, I think) which is of course "in F" and has easier access to multi-flat tonalities. If the range goes down to C below the stave and/or it is in C or "flatter" keys, then it was probably for Descant ("Soprano") Recorder as Baroque flutes didn't have low C. If I'm right and you are playing recorder repertory, you might be better off investing in and learning that instrument for those pieces. As a chromatic instrument it will have much greater facility with the accidentals you are likely to encounter in that type of music which a diatonic folk flute will struggle with. Otherwise, get into proper Baroque flute!
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!
My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
-
jemtheflute
- Posts: 6969
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
- Contact:
Bill, if you are playing the Baroque Flute repertory, certainly a Baroque flute with its chromatic capacities would be suitable, but playing Baroque Traverso properly is a whole different world of fluting that you need to read up on from appropriate sources before contemplating diving into it! (Pardon my assumption that you are not already up to speed on that.) It certainly will be much harder than playing the same repertory on Boehm flute, especially the "flat" keys, as a Traverso is in D, so 2/3/4 flats key sigs are even more remote than they "seem" on Boehm. You've got another two notes to flatten from the home scale, C# to C and F# to F before you even get to making B flat and E flat and A flat! So, for example, Bach's Eb Sonata is mentally kinda "in 5 flats" to a Traverso (or Simple System) player, but on the plus side the B minor Suite is "in 0 flats or sharps" - home key. (The good ol' Badinerie is actually easier on Traverso or 8-key than it is on Boehm!). Much of that music actually feels and sounds much more natural on a period instrument and can sometimes be easier than on Boehm, falling more naturally under the fingers. But if you are playing with an ensemble of modern orchestral instruments, there probably isn't much point going down the period instrument route - you can adapt correct historical performance practice to modern instruments.
A diatonic Eb folk flute will not really "help" you at all, though it may just be that a few pieces which stay firmly in Eb and closely related keys without many accidentals and don't require low D or E natural might be quite fun played on such an instrument (once transposed to ease reading). On balance, I'd advise you to stick to your Boehm for the kind of musical context you describe, at least until you learn a lot more than you seem to know about the music and instruments of that era (sorry, assumptions again - shoot me if they're unfair!) - practice playing in those keys and they'll get more approachable a lot sooner than they will by switching to Traverso or to an inappropriate folk instrument.
A diatonic Eb folk flute will not really "help" you at all, though it may just be that a few pieces which stay firmly in Eb and closely related keys without many accidentals and don't require low D or E natural might be quite fun played on such an instrument (once transposed to ease reading). On balance, I'd advise you to stick to your Boehm for the kind of musical context you describe, at least until you learn a lot more than you seem to know about the music and instruments of that era (sorry, assumptions again - shoot me if they're unfair!) - practice playing in those keys and they'll get more approachable a lot sooner than they will by switching to Traverso or to an inappropriate folk instrument.
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!
My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
Jem, brilliant posts!
Let me add, please, that perhaps a reason to have a one-key flute with a diatonic in a traditional D yet capable of performance in other keys could be that the recorder (and yes, we Yanks call an F recorder an Alto) preceded the one-key flute, and that the then new one-key flute would then have had to "compete" with the more established recorder, and the music as written for it.
Let me add, please, that perhaps a reason to have a one-key flute with a diatonic in a traditional D yet capable of performance in other keys could be that the recorder (and yes, we Yanks call an F recorder an Alto) preceded the one-key flute, and that the then new one-key flute would then have had to "compete" with the more established recorder, and the music as written for it.