Help! Ethical Dilemma!

[rama]

terry, be strategic and capitalize.
outsource. don't sell the plans, keep the rights to them, but negotiate for outsourcing with exclusive rights over them. you can control what pakistani flute makers do, and insure they don't have an adverse effect on the current market. if they refuse, let them continue to make cheap stuff. their loss. because obviously their way isn't working. time for change. think global economics. you can a be a caretaker of the irish flute world economy. if you don't, they might. take charge of the situation. i am available for consultation, fees are negotiable .

[Cubitt]

I'm a conservative Republican, opposed to most things

May I quote you?

Oh. . .I just did.

Now, I'm not being political (Dale), I'm just enjoying how Jim likes to structure his posts.

hee hee.

[Dana]

I'm a conservative Republican, opposed to most things

Now, I'm not being political (Dale), I'm just enjoying how Jim likes to structure his posts.
hee hee.

[jim stone]

I'm a conservative Republican, opposed to most things

May I quote you?

Oh. . .I just did.

Now, I'm not being political (Dale), I'm just enjoying how Jim likes to structure his posts.

hee hee.

Hey, common. You left out part of my sentence.
I said I was 'opposed to most things good and beautiful.'

Not cause of my political bent, that was meant as an aside.

I'm just mean and depraved.

[Cubitt]

I'm just mean and depraved.

You're depraved on account of you're deprived.

Sorry. . .felt some "Officer Krupke" from West Side Story coming on.

(The trouble is he's lazy,
The trouble is he drinks,
The trouble is he's crazy,
The trouble is he stinks,
The trouble is he's growing,
The trouble is he's grown.
Krupke, we've got troubles of our own.)

[sbfluter]

It is a hard to always know whether having low-cost products, such as inexpensive high-quality flutes, is better than having local artisans employed in making the same items, albeit having the items available at a higher price.
...
Being a little possessive about trade secrets seems like one way of doing this.

Do these plans include all the little things you do to make the product high-quality or do they simply include the minimum measurements to make a functioning flute?

If Pakistani makers don't add the "fit and finish", or neglect to employ whatever techniques, tooling, or use poor-quality wood, don't do as fine workmanship or whatever that is the "secret sauce" to making a flute sing and look like an expensive instrument, then the artisan still has something to offer no matter how cheaply the others can make them.

Plus I just don't believe for a minute that they'll ever offer them so much cheaper than Terry's or Casey's or whoever's finer products because anything over there that is of truly fine quality always costs as much as fine quality stuff over here. I know because I went there and the prices of the really nice stuff were way more than I could afford.

It seemed to me when I was over there that their quality of workmanship tends to be as widely stratified as their society. Things are either really extremely fine and very expensive, or it's low/medium quality and ridiculously cheap, or it's total garbage and costs as much. Not much in the good quality/good price range.

[jim stone]

Sorry Anvil, I'm kind of passionate about the third world.
People were so nice to me I never got over it.
I hitchhiked all over India and after a bit I spent no money,
people took me home, people gave me food.
People with very little.
Often I had no language in common with them.
I had lots of passport pictures and I would write
on the back in English, hoping somebody would
translate for them: 'When I think of India I
will remember your kindness.' I do.

[kmag]

Hello all,
I think if you gave ten woodworkers these plans you would get ten different sounding flutes. These plans are the starting point as I see it and their ability, or lack of ability, to fine tune these flutes into fine instruments are what keeps the market from being flooded now. I would sell them the plans and I really don't believe they will be selling Terry McGee flutes, just flutes from Terry's plans. It will be up to them to hone their skills and soon they will be making better flutes with their own sound.

[Jon C.]

Hi,
I agree with kmag, the plans you sell are drawn from the original that you have, not the modified version that you sell. They still need the skill to make a good reamer and to put all the holes in the right place! If they were real serious, they would buy a original and copy it themselves. I have found it very helpful to copy the original, instead of just copying dimensions off of plans, though I was able to make a nice flute from raw dimensions.
So I would say, go ahead and sell the plans, they will probably get them anyhow, if you don't sell them!
We will see what comes of it.

[jim stone]

You might write to them and tell them, Jon.
Might enjoy (indeed, profit from) corresponding with you.

[s1m0n]

I'd sell. You made the plans to sell to makers, and it's massively something (condescending? selfish? hypocritical? First-worldist?) to refuse to sell because the 'wrong' maker wants to buy.

We fault Pakistanis for making poor flutes for ITM. Here's a possible pakistani flutemaker who's expressing the desire to make better flutes. I think the honourable course is to sell him the plans and let him try to make better flutes than he has been.

Deliberately keeping him in the dark is acting like the proverbial dog in the manger.

[Cork]

...I'm looking for your advice on what the ethical thing to do is here...

Technically speaking, go ahead and give them the advise they seek, but unless they have the heart for it, they eventually will amount to nothing.

On the other hand, I am reminded of the words of an older artist friend of mine, that, "there is no justice, as, there just is." -Lew Lappert

[Jon C.]

You might write to them and tell them, Jon.
Might enjoy (indeed, profit from) corresponding with you.

I will leave it in Terry's capable hands...

[daiv]

it is not unethical to refuse sale of your plans to a competitor. you have the right to sell your plans to certain competitors and not others. it's just business.

if you do decide to sell, approach it in the same mindset of business, and not fairness. the people you intended the plans for work on a small scale, and you have set the price accordingly. set the new price based on how much they will produce and how much they want it. maybe set up a licensing fee.

if they want to create good prdouct, then they will probably talk to you and negotiate. if they want to steal from you, they will become mad or disinterested when you hike up the price to a couple thousand or offer a licensing fee.

do not do business with them if they want to steal from you. you are not ethically obliged to give them something at less than it's market value; selling it to them for the price you have it now is the equivalent of them stealing it from you, as they know what proper business is and would then be trying to take advantage of you because they would believe you do not know the difference.

if they are fair and want to do it legitmately, then consider selling it to them on its merits in business, not in ethics.

it does not matter if they will steal it from someone else if you dont sell it to them. a thief is a thief, and it will do you no harm to let them steal from someone else, but you will feel cheated if you let them take advantage of you.

[Flutered]

Sell them and fair dues to you for sharing the knowledge you have collected.
I don't go at all with this franchising or intellectual property rights nonsense - typical capitalist mentality.
Yes, other makers can get an old flute and measure it up - this person and others are just seeking to shortcut this process and use the benefit of your time taken to measure up a good flute.
If anyone owns the 'rights' to the design, it's the original company that made them - all you've made is a few sketches with dimensions.
Maybe this should be a 'political' thread! as I see some responents here in a very different and unpleasant light compared to heretofore.