It is currently Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:10 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2623 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173 ... 175  Next
Author Message
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6899
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
If you're talking in transposition and mean in the 2nd quaver pair penultimate bar of the B music as writ, so D instrument fingering/note name, then yes, I'm playing a G# as found in two of the five settings I got from online ABC sources. If that isn't what you're referring to, dunno at this stage. There were some flabby bits of fingering in The Providence generally....... It's still settling in in my repertory.

Added: ah, I wonder.... If you mean actual pitch notes as emitted, could be this: the open C# fingering (sounds an actual A) is very flat if the extra key provided to vent it and bring it up to pitch (see image on the clip) isn't used (venting the normal long C doesn't get it up enough). I probably wasn't hitting it consistently as I'm still getting used to it as well as to the tune.

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 16919
Here's a jig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIbiAoKQ5wU


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:32 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 13331
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
jemtheflute wrote:
If you're talking in transposition and mean in the 2nd quaver pair penultimate bar of the B music as writ, so D instrument fingering/note name, then yes, I'm playing a G# as found in two of the five settings I got from online ABC sources. If that isn't what you're referring to, dunno at this stage. There were some flabby bits of fingering in The Providence generally....... It's still settling in in my repertory.

Added: ah, I wonder.... If you mean actual pitch notes as emitted, could be this: the open C# fingering (sounds an actual A) is very flat if the extra key provided to vent it and bring it up to pitch (see image on the clip) isn't used (venting the normal long C doesn't get it up enough). I probably wasn't hitting it consistently as I'm still getting used to it as well as to the tune.

I meant actual pitch notes - you should know me by now. :wink: And I wondered if it was that the 6-open-holes A (C# in 'D' fingering) was flat. And you're right - it's very flat. :) So much so that I'd be tempted to use a cran rather than a Bb roll or Bb-A-Bb if it was me. Using the key at that speed isn't terribly tempting.

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6899
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
Well, now we know what we're discussing...... Actually, using the C# vent key is not at all awkward, even at speed (depending on context somewhat) save for familiarity with its position and feel. I can do it in The Providence B music, just failed to do so consistently in that performance while panicking about other things.... Anyway there aren't any rolls etc. on the open C# (sounds A) fingering in that tune - in the B music setting I'm working from all the written C#s are in arpeggio or scale contexts and unornamented. Using the key is also made easier by the facts that it works well as the D fingering octave vent ( whether or not one also vents L1), so can be kept open in a D- C# switch, and also that the commonly given period fingering for middle C# (ooo xxx,) works well with it, so one has a very facile D-C# change. But using those options well entails familiarisation, and until fully familiarised one tends to default to what one is most accustomed to doing (on other flutes). Hence flubs under pressure of other aspects going awry, mentally at least ("hell, how does this bit go?" - I wasn't using the dots.....)

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:06 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 13331
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
No, I know there aren't any rolls on the A (C# equivalent). I was superimposing my own take on it and thinking you were doing a roll on the Bb (D equivalent at the first octave). Actually, you're doing dbab dbfb | dbab etc (those bs being b flats of course) and it's those as that are flat. And yes, in that pattern (as opposed to a roll) I can well see that use of the key would be reasonably easy once you'd got used to the tune.

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6899
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
benhall.1 wrote:
No, I know there aren't any rolls on the A (C# equivalent). I was superimposing my own take on it and thinking you were doing a roll on the Bb (D equivalent at the first octave). Actually, you're doing dbab dbfb | dbab etc (those bs being b flats of course) and it's those as that are flat. And yes, in that pattern (as opposed to a roll) I can well see that use of the key would be reasonably easy once you'd got used to the tune.

I'm still thinking ?????? here. The first half of each of the first 3 bars of the B music is (written) fd ~d2 - and I'm playing (or trying to play) crans on the vented D (Bb) - the cuts of which on any flute all sound an out-of-tune Cnat (so Ab on this flute). If I was (intentionally) playing fd d/^c/d then venting the C# would be easy.

I have to admit, though, listening back to the clip, the only time I actually pull those crans off fairly well is in the 2nd B 2nd time through the tune. All the others are poor. I did another take in which I think they were rather better, but other aspects were worse..... More practice!

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:38 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 13331
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
jemtheflute wrote:
benhall.1 wrote:
No, I know there aren't any rolls on the A (C# equivalent). I was superimposing my own take on it and thinking you were doing a roll on the Bb (D equivalent at the first octave). Actually, you're doing dbab dbfb | dbab etc (those bs being b flats of course) and it's those as that are flat. And yes, in that pattern (as opposed to a roll) I can well see that use of the key would be reasonably easy once you'd got used to the tune.

I'm still thinking ?????? here. The first half of each of the first 3 bars of the B music is (written) fd ~d2 - and I'm playing (or trying to play) crans on the vented D (Bb) - the cuts of which on any flute all sound an out-of-tune Cnat (so Ab on this flute). If I was (intentionally) playing fd d/^c/d then venting the C# would be easy.

I have to admit, though, listening back to the clip, the only time I actually pull those crans off fairly well is in the 2nd B 2nd time through the tune. All the others are poor. I did another take in which I think they were rather better, but other aspects were worse..... More practice!

We're getting nearer, I think. The crans aren't sounding like crans to me. There's too much of a Cnat (Ab) sound in there. If it was just a blip, with no real pitch, it would be OK, but it sounds distinctly like Ab (Cnat if you insist). Plus, it needs to be burblier. :wink:

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6899
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
benhall.1 wrote:
We're getting nearer, I think. The crans aren't sounding like crans to me. There's too much of a Cnat (Ab) sound in there. If it was just a blip, with no real pitch, it would be OK, but it sounds distinctly like Ab (Cnat if you insist). Plus, it needs to be burblier. :wink:

That's it. Crap (failed) crans. No more to it than that.

As for note names, with transposing instruments it's normal(in classical circles), is it not, to talk/write in terms of the written note/fingering name, not the pitch sounded? ;-) :-P

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:23 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 13331
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
jemtheflute wrote:
As for note names, with transposing instruments it's normal(in classical circles), is it not, to talk/write in terms of the written note/fingering name, not the pitch sounded? ;-) :-P

What? On the grounds that you're playing an Ab flute, you mean? :)

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6899
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
Wrong smiley? It's an Ab flute if you want to pretend concert flutes are C instruments. :poke: :swear:

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 16919
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSfb4-0yXJE


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
Posts: 2018
Location: Detroit, Michigan
FWIW, only someone who wanted to make life difficult for himself would bother thinking in terms of absolute pitches. Most irish (style, not nationality) musicians (of wind instruments anyway) would think in terms of D or concert pitch, regardless of the actual pitch. So for uilleann pipes, the bottom note is always D, even if it's an 18" chanter that plays between B and Bb. Likewise, flutes are referred to with respect to D or concert flutes.

This is pretty much true of almost all orchestral wind instruments, by the way. Trumpet, Baritone, F French Horn, Alto Horn - these all get music written for them that reflects a certain fingering (or finger pattern) rather than the "absolute" pitch. Clarinets, flutes, and saxophones are probably a better example, because the exceptions seem to all be in the brass family (Bb and Double French Horns, Euphoniums, Tubas for example).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:01 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:21 pm
Posts: 13331
Location: Unimportant island off the great mainland of Europe
NicoMoreno wrote:
FWIW, only someone who wanted to make life difficult for himself would bother thinking in terms of absolute pitches.

Or someone like me who hears the actual pitches. It's easy enough for me to 'translate' to relative pitches. But I hear what sounds. So, for me at least, it's easier to think in terms of absolute pitch.

_________________
"Only connect!"

https://youtu.be/ezbWVysJAOY
https://tapm.bandcamp.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am
Posts: 6899
Location: N.E. Wales, G.B.
benhall.1 wrote:
Or someone like me who hears the actual pitches. It's easy enough for me to 'translate' to relative pitches. But I hear what sounds. So, for me at least, it's easier to think in terms of absolute pitch.

440Hz slave! :poke: You dun bin conditioned!

There's no such thing as "absolute pitch", save in the scientific sense of cycles per second/vibration frequency. Musical pitch is always relative, and even attempts to apply "standards" such as A=440 have met with at best mixed, inconsistent and impermanent success. (I know you know this Ben, just saying for benefit of other folk). For those with very accute perception of pitch, conditioning to a standard such as A=440 can produce the memorised effect/learnt skill of "perfect pitch". But such folk recognise "an A" or "a C", not the c/s figure. In other words, they apply a received label. But the labelling issue is a bit like shifting the clock forward or back at the equinoxes for "summer time". Nothing real in nature changes, we just shift the labels a notch and our diurnal habits with them. If the reference pitch is changed, say to A=435, everything else moves relative to that but retains the same labels. The intervals between the side-stepped labels have the same proportions, but the c/s numbers change as, of course, do the sounded pitches.

Now, those like Ben can still hear and name the intervals, but their memorised naming referents/perceived pitch correlations are disrupted. If the new reference point happens to neatly hit on or fairly near a semitone or whole tone step, (e.g. A=415:A=440 is approximately a semitone flatter), someone with "perfect pitch" predicated on A=440 will hear that written A, produced by the A key/tone-hole/string/fingering as "an Ab", and probably be irked by the fact. If the new reference pitch is a fraction of a semitone away from 440, the "perfect pitch" victim may well find everything painfully "out of tune" even if the playing exemplifies perfect relative intonation, and even if they realise or have explained to them that a different pitch standard is in use, it may continue to gall their ear. Those of us with less anchored pitch perception will by unphased by such things. We'll notice the different pitch, probably, (probably in terms of "mellower" if lower, "brighter" if higher) but it won't be an "issue".

It is worth bearing in mid that the A=440 pitch standard has a relatively short history and has only been a near-standard in the Western musical world since the 1920s and, by the mid 1970s was already being challenged by the Period Instrument revival of lower pitch standards in limited contexts. More recently there has been a new phase of pitch-creep (sharpening) in mainstream orchestras, especially in the US and Germany. The digital and popular music worlds seem to be pretty much ignoring that fact and sticking to 440, as do we folkies. But there are no absolutes! I suspect that if a present day pop band or producer in Germany wanted to hire an orchestra for a studio session, they'd find themselves having to tune up (or use pitch-changing software) to A=446 to match the orchestra, 'cos the orchestra's woodwind, brass and fixed-pitch percussion wouldn't be able to come down to 440!

_________________
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

My YouTube channel
My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 
 Post subject: Re: Posting clips
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:33 am
Posts: 1659
Location: hOriZoNtAL
Something I am actually working up on pipes, but I like this one-off of the tune....
so, here ya go....
https://www.box.com/files/0/f/0/1/f_8185905528
Arbo


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2623 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173 ... 175  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.191s | 11 Queries | GZIP : On ]
(dh)