Shall we resume saying how long we've been playing?

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chas
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Post by chas »

Jayhawk wrote:
crookedtune wrote:Another approach might be to skip all the credential-posting bravado, and for readers to simply accept all advice with a healthy grain of salt. Trust is, they'll need to do that anyway....
Get out of here with your common sense approach! We need certification so everyone knows the qualifications of each board member...

Seriously though, I agree with you completely. Just because you take your car to a dealership for a repair, it doesn't mean the mechanic truly is an expert on your particular model, honest, or more than a week away from his/her training. Does your bank teller truly understand how to wire money in Euros to an Irish bank account (I was told this wasn't possible by several folks before they found someone who could help - had I taken them at their word, it wouldn't have happened). And as one of the doctors who works for me said, just because you made it through medical school does not mean you know very much about medicine and treating patients.

Every interaction we have with another individual, in person, by phone or by internet, requires that we evaluate the merits of the person giving the advice and come to our own judgment before we decide to take the advice or not.
Ditto. Anyone asking advice here oughta read the archives back awhile and get to know different people's points of view, prejudices, knowledge base, etc. Few of the frequent posters to this forum hide much.

Charlie: hack Irish flute player five years; hack traverso player for a year or two; turned enough wood to know that a small misstep can lead to disaster or danger faster than you can say "2000 rpm".
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Re: Let's resume saying how long we've been playing

Post by Dana »

jim stone wrote:When giving advice, especially to newbies,
say how long you'be been playing Irish flute.
I'll never tell... 8)
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Re: Let's resume saying how long we've been playing

Post by rama »

Dana wrote:
jim stone wrote:When giving advice, especially to newbies,
say how long you'be been playing Irish flute.
I'll never tell... 8)
my kind of gal :wink:

wanna see my flute?
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Post by MarcusR »

Disclaimer, I don't play flutes anymore and if I ever give some input or advice regarding flute playing here on the forums please, do not listen to me.

Secondly, I have very much appreciated advice I have got from intermediate and struggling players here on the boards, both for flutes and pipes.
I have found it easy to relate to advice comming from people a little more advanced or experience then myself, that still remembers the problems and difficulties of the phase where I am or was at.
I can understand the reasoning and the concern about the problems that arise if a "blind is leading the blind". I'm sure there are quite a few that are far better players here on the board compared to IRL. In the same way, not all flute players are gifted musicians and all talanted musicians are not by default good teachers.

Every now and then the mega experinced players tend to overshoot, yes I know Olwels, Wilkes and Grinters are the flutes to get, and a full set by Wooff or Fromant is what I should have. And I also know that the way Molloy or Ennis plays the tune is the correct way. Sometimes it just feels good to get some simple advice like, "skip that tripplet I never get the timing right either". There is only one rule, when you get advice or seek information on the internet you have to learn to be both sceptical and critical.

Cheers!

/MarcusR
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Post by Nanohedron »

MarcusR wrote:In the same way, not all flute players are gifted musicians and all talanted musicians are not good teachers.
It is exactly this that makes me wonder at the value of stating one's time accrued playing when weighing in on a subject. I see that as sort of pointing out the shingle on one's wall - it isn't an unquestionable sign of relative qualification. I happen to know some players who haven't been at it long who are crazy good. And as Marcus says, even the beginner's viewpoint can be valuable.
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Post by Gordon »

chas wrote:
Jayhawk wrote:
crookedtune wrote:Another approach might be to skip all the credential-posting bravado, and for readers to simply accept all advice with a healthy grain of salt. Trust is, they'll need to do that anyway....
Get out of here with your common sense approach! We need certification so everyone knows the qualifications of each board member...

Seriously though, I agree with you completely. Just because you take your car to a dealership for a repair, it doesn't mean the mechanic truly is an expert on your particular model, honest, or more than a week away from his/her training. Does your bank teller truly understand how to wire money in Euros to an Irish bank account (I was told this wasn't possible by several folks before they found someone who could help - had I taken them at their word, it wouldn't have happened). And as one of the doctors who works for me said, just because you made it through medical school does not mean you know very much about medicine and treating patients.

Every interaction we have with another individual, in person, by phone or by internet, requires that we evaluate the merits of the person giving the advice and come to our own judgment before we decide to take the advice or not.
Ditto. Anyone asking advice here oughta read the archives back awhile and get to know different people's points of view, prejudices, knowledge base, etc. Few of the frequent posters to this forum hide much.

Charlie: hack Irish flute player five years; hack traverso player for a year or two; turned enough wood to know that a small misstep can lead to disaster or danger faster than you can say "2000 rpm".

It's also very frustrating to pipe in every now and again after some time away (not a flute expression, I realize) to lend an opinion or bit of advice and have to stop to certify who exactly I am, how long I've been playing, what my qualifications may be, etc. -- especially since many of us have already shared that information time and time again over the years. And for some of us, it has been years, and - hopefully, in that time - all of us have gotten that much better, and have learned that much more. In any event, the once interesting post topic is suddenly put on hold while we bring out our resumes. The truth is, there are always people here that know more than others, and others that know less.

This said, I agree wholeheartedly with the last few posts. Taking advice from anyone -- even old pros -- should be taken with a pound of salt. We've all read fairly animated posts between some of the most seasoned makers and players vehemently disagreeing on everything from embouchure and tone, to what flutes play best, to what woods have what properties, allergies, oils to use, and what ornaments we must employ and when, if, of course, at all.

Tastes and experiences vary. Some here mix ITM with anything else that suits their fancy, while others are purists and want only pure-drop information. If the latter is their passion, advice from the former will be largely useless, or, worse, time-wasting and "wrong" -- not in a universal sense, but in its value to what an individual is spending their time on.
Useful information is measured only in how much it touched on something an individual was/is wondering, and where they are in the learning curve. Some of the most accepted advice is distributed between novices. Why? Because newbies relate better to one another, and their recent experiences are most valuable to other newbies. My dissent or advice might hurt, rather than help, because I'm further along and my early struggles are (fortunately) behind me; I've forgotten some problems, or didn't have them in the first place (but had others). I've moved on to newer struggles that newbies won't relate to, but that might still be well behind the learning curve of some of the true masters out there. Everything, as they say, is relative. Or, everyone is a relative. Or is that just in certain areas?

Anyway, I've rambled long enough; have to go put together my resume, my recordings of rigs and jeels, my reference numbers and personal endorsements, and have my 8x10 glossies updated -- the last time they were taken, I had hair...

Gordon
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Post by Gordon »

,,,
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cocusflute
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I'll show you mine- you show me yours.

Post by cocusflute »

I agree with Nano. Years spent doesn't equal progress made.
So let the big talkers post clips.
Scary but it will tend to make necessary distinctions a lot more accurate.
I.e., who are the talkers and who are the players?
There are few of us who can't make an MP3 of our playing and post it to Clips N Snips. http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage2.htm
I'm dying to hear some of the people who make frequent postings. I sent my clip in and I'm waiting for it to be put up.

(No need for anybody to feel intimidated. Listen to some of the fearless people who have posted clips. We'll be kind to each other, right?)

A lot of us have been posting on the thread "Posting Clips. Most are using www.box.net. This site will store your file online and listeners won't have to download it. It's easy to use and people here can help you. It's fun getting to know each other. (Edited to include this last - unfortunately the people most eager to advise and talk still haven't posted.)
Last edited by cocusflute on Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I'll show you mine- you show me yours.

Post by Loren »

cocusflute wrote:I agree with Nano. Years spent doesn't equal progress made.
So let the big talkers post clips.
Scary but it will tend to make necessary distinctions a lot more accurate.
I.e., who are the talkers and who are the players?
There are few of us who can't make an MP3 of our playing and post it to Clips N Snips. http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage2.htm
I'm dying to hear some of the people who make frequent postings. I sent my clip in and I'm waiting for it to be put up.

(No need for anybody to feel intimidated. Listen to some of the fearless people who have posted clips. We'll be kind to each other, right?)
I agree, "Put up or......."

Well, at any rate, it would make things much clearer to those looking for useful advice.


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Post by Loren »

Jayhawk wrote:And as one of the doctors who works for me said, just because you made it through medical school does not mean you know very much about medicine.
:boggle: Wow, that's reassuring......

So, are you saying then that a person is better off, or equally well off with a doctor who didn't go to medical school?

Wow, maybe my way of thinking is all wrong after all. :lol:


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Post by Jayhawk »

Loren wrote: :boggle: Wow, that's reassuring......

So, are you saying then that a person is better off, or equally well off with a doctor who didn't go to medical school?

Wow, maybe my way of thinking is all wrong after all. :lol:

Loren
Nah, I'm not saying look for doctors without credentials, but that the credentials are more a testament to perseverance rather than talent, knowledge, or experience. I work with a lot of doctors, and they're not interchangeable. Same with other specialists like attorneys (worked for them to get through college, am related to one now).

As for posting playing clips equating to the ability to give advice, I'm not sure that proves anything more than that the player is talented. I've known great musicians who don't have the personality and/or talent...to teach. Teaching does not always equate with expertise - sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't...and there is no correlation whatsoever with excellence and having the ability to interact with folks in a socially acceptable manner.

Gordon and Markus make good points about differing tastes, players of differing abilities providing advice to others at the same level, etc. I've had great advice for players I know to be excellent trad players, from new players, and folks of a similar playing level to where I think I am (I have no delusions as to my ability). I've also had bad advice from excellent musicians, newbies, and folks at the same level I am. A clip wouldn't have changed anything except...

Post away! I love listening to clips - they're fun to listen to and I'll likely pick up new variations on tunes. Clips and Snips hasn't had enough recent flute posts anyway. Hopefully, you all will improve my playing even if I think posting clips to prove one's ability to give advice a rather silly thing.

Eric
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Post by eilam »

man Gordon !! sharp as ever, yet right on pitch - so nice to hear from you.
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Post by Samsdad »

Gary here. Flute enthusiast of less than 6 months,whistle player of 5 years (proud owner of a M.B. DBSBT), stringed instrument player of 40+ years. I am a believer in research-overkill before starting anything new.... I combine thoughts, advice and suggestions prior to starting any project. From my lengthy, albeit non-professional, past experience I`ve learned to take advice at face value, even though it worked for you it may not work for me whether it comes from a green twig or a grissled knarly branch and I return it in the same vein. Should I reply to any of your posts please accept it as such.
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Re: Let's resume saying how long we've been playing

Post by Jon C. »

jim stone wrote:we've followed this convention in the past.
When giving advice, especially to newbies,
say how long you'be been playing Irish flute.
We had a problem where people were getting
advice from folks playing a couple of months
or whatever, who weren't saying so.
Please let's continue it, as a courteousy
to those asking for help.

Of course longevity is no guarantee of good advice,
nor is relative newness necessarily a disqualification.
I've been playing hard for four and one half years,
in case anybody wishes to know.
Is that just for this life Jim, or can we count previous incarnations? :-?
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
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Post by greenspiderweb »

OK, let's be careful out there...but have fun!











I've been playing easy for 2-1/2 years.
Last edited by greenspiderweb on Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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