Cotter flutes?

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:45 am

John Kerr is certainly a smart fellow. He is also articulate.
Contrary to his modest self-appraisal, he is certainly sufficiently accomplished to be trusted when he talks about flutes. Unlike, as he pointed out, most of the people on this board who comment on flutes, most of which they haven't played and most of which they couldn't play well enough to appreciate in any case.
Is that too harsh?

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:50 pm

Not too long ago in a session, I got to play a couple of tunes on a fellow from Chicago's Cotter.

Big, strong flute, responsive and with a nice range of tone options.

I am covetous.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:51 pm

cocusflute wrote:John Kerr is certainly a smart fellow. He is also articulate.
Contrary to his modest self-appraisal, he is certainly sufficiently accomplished to be trusted when he talks about flutes. Unlike, as he pointed out, most of the people on this board who comment on flutes, most of which they haven't played and most of which they couldn't play well enough to appreciate in any case.
Is that too harsh?

Nah. (Because of course you weren't talking about me

)

Dave Parkhurst · Post by **Dave Parkhurst** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:38 pm

Well, if someone decides to let a Cotter go, gimme a ring... I haven't seen any up for sale so I might be interested.
Dave

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:18 am

Dave Parkhurst wrote:Well, if someone decides to let a Cotter go, gimme a ring... I haven't seen any up for sale so I might be interested.
Dave

Ahh yes, we're always most interested in what we can't have.......

Loren

emmdee · Post by **emmdee** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:06 am

Just to throw my hat into the ring, I love my Cotter. I messed about with an Ormiston and then a De Keyser before I thought about getting a keyed flute. Having only really played for 18months I knew precisely nothing about anyone other than Mike Grinter, and his flutes were too expensive for a relative novice. I took advice from a friend whose opinion I respected in such matters, and he said he had a Cotter as his "reserve" flute. I guess there are certain places where you just don't take an 1820 R&R!! He put me on to Eamonn. What a nice bloke, what a great flute player. He wouldn't take any money until he knew I liked it. It sounds like a proper flute should, although it's a better flute than I am a player, so by the time I've practiced for 5 years or so it'll sound amazing. I know people who have Grinters, Wilkes, and Aebi flutes who have played my Cotter and love its slim size and dark tone. The only criticism, and it's a minute one, is that the G# key is in totally the wrong place for my grip. I'm not the only Cotter owner I know who has found that problem. I get round this by just playing tunes in A on the whistle. I've hauled myself onto Pat Olwell's list, so hopefully by the time I'm 40 I'll have a top-hole flute for me, and I can give my Cotter to my son/daughter.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:18 pm

Or your great good pal Cat!

(sssh, yes I'm your pal, it doesn't matter if you have no idea who the heck I am)

Of course, by the time you're 40 (grandkids! sheesh!) I'll probably be 80.

<QUAVERINGLY> .... Son? .... Would ya help an auld woman?

Dave Parkhurst · Post by **Dave Parkhurst** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:38 pm

I wonder if anyone has emntioned this key placement problem to Cotter?
Dave

pixyy · Post by **pixyy** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:54 am

Dave Parkhurst wrote:I wonder if anyone has emntioned this key placement problem to Cotter?
Dave

Nope, haven't mentioned it to him.
Although I have not played that many different keyed flutes, I believe the G# key is a problematic little bugger on many flutes.
It tends to be too far down to reach comfortably with the pinky finger of the left hand. Come to think of it, comfort does not enter playing the keys on a simple system flute

Terry McGee has an interesting article on his own improvement of the
G# key.
Makes sense to me.

cheers,
Jeroen

Flutered · Post by **Flutered** » Wed May 17, 2006 2:40 am

Is the G# really a problem? All tunes I play in A, I just use the G as I suspect do the majority of trad. players - makes the tune go into A mixyodian (if that's how you spell it) or A Dorian if you play a C nat as well but isn't that the 'true' nature of lots of ITM tunes in A.
I can see the G# key being useful for the odd slow air. My tuppenceworth.

emmdee · Post by **emmdee** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:08 am

Dave Parkhurst wrote:I wonder if anyone has emntioned this key placement problem to Cotter?
Dave

I didn't mention it for 3 reasons. Firstly, as I said, it's such a minor thing to quibble about. Secondly, being new to the keyed flute, I found that I play a relatively small number of tunes where I needed G#, and I always have an A whistle to hand. Thirdly, I liked the flute so much in every other respect, and by the time it was delivered to me it seemed churlish to even bother.

I'm assuming that Pat O will contact me when he's ready to start on mine to discuss things like key placement.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Wed May 17, 2006 8:32 am

My Murray's G# key is funny, too ... it was designed for the wee people, I think. (Perhaps that's one of the quirks of (reproductions of) older instruments .... like low doorways in old houses? (i.e., people used to be smaller before things like vitamins, penicillin and indoor heating?))

I also have a McGee Pratten; its G-sharp key is the most sensible I've encountered though I haven't gotten to spend nearly enough time with, say, an Olwell

..... FWIW, the G-sharp on my old Ormiston is small but well-placed (for me, at least) ....

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:57 am

emmdee wrote:I'm assuming that Pat O will contact me when he's ready to start on mine to discuss things like key placement.

If you think you might have issues related to key placement, it would probably be a good idea for you to go ahead and mention them to Patrick now, rather than waiting for him to bring up the topic. I don't recall him asking me anything about how I'd like the keys placed when he made the keyed pieces for my flute, and even if he had I probably wouldn't have been able to tell him anything because my total experience up to that point was with keyless flutes. All I knew about keys at the time was that I wanted them! I suspect many of his keyed flute buyers fit that profile, which is probably why he never asked me for any specifics about key placement. But then again I got my keys in 1997, so maybe he's changed the way he does things now.

There's not a whole lot of leeway, though, when it comes to placement of the G# key, since the touches for the G# and the long F both need to be accessible to the same finger, the left hand pinky (or right hand pinky for left-handed players). Overoptimizing the location of the G# touch to make it perfect for a particular player is likely to result in a less than satisfactory location for the long F touch. Putting both of these keys on a flute is a compromise. Neither one will be ideally located, but on the other hand neither one should be adversely located, either. IMHO Patrick Olwell does a great job negotiating this compromise in his "standard" flute design. I've never had any problem with my flute. Now I do have fairly small hands - but I suppose that could be either an advantage or disadvantage in this situation. I don't know...

I have seen some keyed flutes by other makers (can't recall who, and even if I could there would be no point to naming them) that were downright ugly, with keys (particularly the longer ones like C and F) sticking way out from the flute. They kind of reminded me of a bent antenna on a car, they were that ugly. To give the benefit of the doubt, maybe those key placements were customizations to make the flute more playable for a specific person. But I do think that in addition to playing well a flute needs to look nice too. Patrick Olwell's flutes look great and play great as well!

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:05 pm

John,

Just out of curiosity, which of the two keys do you use more?

MattL · Post by **MattL** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:08 pm

Eamonn Cotter's flutes rock. I bought mine on the recommendation of Brendan McKinney who is one of the best Irish flute players I know, in the US or anywhere else. After playing the Cotter as my main flute for over three years I would strongly agree.

This stuff about his prices is nonsense - his prices are very reasonable whether you are in Europe or not. I currently have a 6-key E-flat flute on order with him and the price is $2300 USD. I payed about the same for my 6-key in D three years ago. His wait time is only about 6 months as well, which is also nice

Cathy: I think it was my flute your were talking about playing- we met at the St. Louis tionol (I liked your Murray too, btw)

.

Anyway, I think Cotter flutes are among the best in the world and I would highly recommend them to anyone who is serious about playing traditional Irish music on the flute.

Cheers,

Matt Loranger
Chicago, USA

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