Who's King of the Hill?

Dave Parkhurst · Post by **Dave Parkhurst** » Sun Jul 22, 2001 11:35 pm

By posting this I don't to mean to start a war, but I'd like the opinions of some experienced Keyless flute players: Who do you think makes the best wooden flute around? And please, if you haven't played it, don't promote or knock it. I've heard good stuff about Wilkes and Grinter, and that Healey is a good deal for the moolah... any input? And has anyone played a Terry McGee flute? I'm not necessarily looking for raw volume, but desire a purer tone, and I have small hands. If you wish to reply in private with picks or pans, use my email: daveparkhurst@prodigy.net .... thanks!
Dave

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Mon Jul 23, 2001 12:32 am

Hello Dave,

Take a look at the "Flute Dreams" post below. Some of your answers are in there. I too have been looking at getting a higher end wooden flute and everyone was very happy to share their thoughts.

Peace,
Erik

bruce_b · Post by **bruce_b** » Mon Jul 23, 2001 5:18 pm

Dave,
I think there are a bunch of excellent makers out there, and depending on your needs and anatomy, any of them might make the *best* flute for you.
About McGee. Check out my post on this forum and follow the link to Fyfer Restorations to see and read about my McGee. The fact you are looking for a flute with a purer tone and have smaller hands suggests a McGee might be perfect. He makes several different models, some with smaller holes than a big holed Pratten or Rudall. His modern cut embouchure sounds perfect for you. Not trad, but should help get you a purer, more focused tone. McGee does have about a TWO YEAR waiting list.

eubiedubie · Post by **eubiedubie** » Mon Jul 23, 2001 6:52 pm

I have four keyless D flute three blackwood and one rosewood.A Healy,Cotter,Schultz and
a rosewood Coply.The Coply is the one I like
today, it seems to have more of the fuzzy sound and quickness.The cotter has a more centered sound and is light and quick.The Healy has a big reedy sound and is just a tad
harder to play and the Shultz hasn't come back yet.

gcollins · Post by **gcollins** » Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:07 am

Well...forget all the rest and just get on the Patrick Olwell list now. You'll never have to ask this question again.

Try the Nicholson model.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Jul 25, 2001 2:48 pm

Hey G.,

Have you gotten your hands on a Nicholson as well as the Pratten Olwell?

Dave,

I've got a Healy and a Copley. I've played a Hoza and a Grinter. If it's a pure sweet sound you want, I'd suggest the Grinter, of those I mentioned. It's very sweet and pure sounding, It's not a loud session flute though(although I've heard one played at a session). It's also very easy to play and the holes are small.

The Healy has a big loud sound, but not real trad to may ear. Of course that could just be due to my lack of skill

It's also more difficult to play than the other flutes (but then I suck so.....)

The Hoza was nice, but not in the same league.

The Copley is the most flexible by far: It's capable of being nearly as sweet as the Grinter (but not quite), or VERY reedy - a la Egan or Nugent. It's capable of more volume than the Grinter, but can also be played fairly softly. I think the response is better than that of the Healy, at least for someone of my ability. The holes are not large (I too have small hands) and it's VERY easy to play, I mean so easy it's just silly.

Wish I could comment on the McGee and Olwell, but I haven't had the pleasure of playing either one yet.

How you been by the way? Hope all is well.

Loren

The Copley is awesome, and can play with a nice pure tone,

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » Wed Jul 25, 2001 8:24 pm

Dave,
I agree with gcollins on this one. Let me put it this way: if one were to use Star Wars terminology, the Patrick Olwell flute would be the Light Saber of Irish music.

All the best--

K.

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:35 am

Hi Folks,
I hate to say it, but after being in Ireland for a month and half now (one month to go), I have really come to the conclusion that it is, almost completely, the player who is responsible for the tone of the flute. Having reacently learned how to really play the Grinter, I can give it just the same buzz as an Olwell or Copley. Almost everyone here either plays Hamilton or Cotter flutes, and all of the flutes I've tried by said makers have been absolutely superb! Hammy's flutes are rediculously underpriced as well. Anyways, what I have realzized is that most American players play with completely the wrong embouchure as a result produce completely the wrong sound. Most Americans (and this is a big generalization) tend to play with a "classical" style embouchure and the result is, predictably, a classical sound. THe correct embouchure is extremely thin and tight, with the lips stretched so tight that for the first several months it hurts like heck. It's completely different, trust me! I've had lessons over here with Kevin Ryan, Christy Barry, Marcus O'Murchu, Paul McGratten, Hammy Hamilton, and Harry Bradley and they all have eessentially the same embouchure. Give it a go, try playing with your lips impossible tight and after an hour or so, I can practically guarantee that you will begin to get the 'Irish edge' to your playing, no matter what sort of flute you are playing. By the way, I really, really, really, recommend Hammy Hamilton's flutes to those of you who are in the market. I have a Grinter and a Copley and Hammy's flutes are easily on par with them for significantly less money.
Best,
Chris

totst · Post by **totst** » Mon Aug 13, 2001 3:40 pm

Ain't knocking the tight embrochure, but I've been reading about a lot of players switching from the tight to a more relaxed embrochure and getting better results. Tom Doorley( Danu) is one of them I remember. Whether the embrochure is tight or relaxed I think more important is how you direct the airstream. Shakuhachi masters get a real hard edge on their flutes with a very relaxed embrochure and any one who has played a shak will tell you how hard it is to get some edge on the instrument. I find it easier to play all registers with a relaxed blowing style. Can't get the hard D with a tight playing style , it just vanishes into thin air. I don't play a lot of Irish trad but the music I play really calls for that edgy sound. My 2 cents.

Tots

RudallRose · Post by **RudallRose** » Tue Aug 14, 2001 8:46 pm

For what it's worth, I see many many of these makers come through my shop in one form or another and have the pleasure of playing them all, from the Potter flutes of the late 18th Century to the Olwells of today. The post about the player is very close to exact. But what is different is the response of the flute itself. One cannot produce the tones of an Olwell on an anonymous-made flute. Close, but not the same. Each flute has its limitation and flaw, which isn't hard to imagine as they are each hand made.
I've played Rudalls that sound crappy and I've played Olwells that weren't the same as another Olwell. Some are reedy in sound, others sweet. Some full, others thin. Most of today's makers spend a great deal of time designing their flutes to fill the bottom loudly. Ergo the bottoms of Olwell, McGee, Grinter, Healy and others are powerful. To find the perfect flute, you need all 3 registers and not all of them make the grade on all levels. Again, remember the off-the-shelf flutes are likely made more to the ear of the maker than the player it goes to. That's why the makers will often work with you to customize your new flute. Kind of like custom-fitted golf clubs made for your swing.
It's this variance that I think leads to so many differences in the Rudall&Rose flutes, and others, such as Goodlad and Prowse. Some are terrific, others average.
So the only way to find out is to play them. At sessions, at shops, on consignment/purchase. Whatever.
Personally, I play a Rudall&Rose with an Olwell headjoint. To me it's perfect in every way.
But then again, that's just me.