Holding a flute: normal vs. piper style

[Doug_Tipple]

The teensy bucket idea is not bad either, but it still would require venture capital to get it off the ground, in my opinion.

[Dragon]

Never teach pigs to sing"

Why not oleorezinator?

[oleorezinator]

Never teach pigs to sing"

Why not oleorezinator?

why not what?

[Dragon]

Never teach pigs to sing"

Why not oleorezinator?

why not what?

Why not teach pigs to sing?

[oleorezinator]

Why not oleorezinator?

why not what?

Why not teach pigs to sing?

because it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. so goes the seanfhocal.

[talasiga]

........
I mean quicker, more accurate, more agile,
ornamenting more crisply. I suppose part of the
rational is that the ends of one's fingers
are more precise and discrete objects than
the middle joints--dance better, can be
placed and controlled with more precision.

Bansuri often requires piper's grip--these things
can be humongous, and I have to use it on
low whistles. I've seen excellent flutists
use it too--as I said, one can play very well
with piper's grip. I never would have made
the change except that I had driven six hours
to reach the lesson, Grey L is Grey L,
and the lesson, while a good deal,
had cost too much to ignore.

I'm 62, by the way.

From my observation in sitting and practising with concert standard bansuri players (including the 82 centimetre A flute) I note:-

Bansuri is not just phalanging the tone holes.
Combination of finger tipping and phalanging.
The right ring finger tip closes the tone hole and the next two fingers are "phalangers". Ditto with left hand. This is much easier and more balanced than 6 finger phalanging.
I am just now (these last 2 weeks) adjusting my Irish flute playing to this approach. It does wonders for the posture. My bansuri player friend sits and plays these large flutes for 2 to 3 hours at a time every day. My friend studies under Hariprasad Chaurasia's bansuri maker whenever he visits India. I forget the makers name just now. Actually I couldn't grasp it through my friend's Italian accent.

Anyhow,
its finger tip, phalange, phalange, finger tip, phalange, phalange .....

This is why you have not seen me about for some time.

[djm]

I can't cover the holes at all with pipers grip. I have been going through the various suggestions here, as well as reading GL, and I am not coming up with the same combos at all. I can't even reach the flute with my RH pinky, so I balance with the RH third finger covering the E all the time, same as I learned on the whistle. I guess it really is important to try all possible methods to find what works for you.

djm

[jim stone]

Do you mean covering the D?
Please explain if you will.
Do you mean the ring finger
on the rt hand?

[jim stone]

........
I mean quicker, more accurate, more agile,
ornamenting more crisply. I suppose part of the
rational is that the ends of one's fingers
are more precise and discrete objects than
the middle joints--dance better, can be
placed and controlled with more precision.

Bansuri often requires piper's grip--these things
can be humongous, and I have to use it on
low whistles. I've seen excellent flutists
use it too--as I said, one can play very well
with piper's grip. I never would have made
the change except that I had driven six hours
to reach the lesson, Grey L is Grey L,
and the lesson, while a good deal,
had cost too much to ignore.

I'm 62, by the way.

From my observation in sitting and practising with concert standard bansuri players (including the 82 centimetre A flute) I note:-

Bansuri is not just phalanging the tone holes.
Combination of finger tipping and phalanging.
The right ring finger tip closes the tone hole and the next two fingers are "phalangers". Ditto with left hand. This is much easier and more balanced than 6 finger phalanging.
I am just now (these last 2 weeks) adjusting my Irish flute playing to this approach. It does wonders for the posture. My bansuri player friend sits and plays these large flutes for 2 to 3 hours at a time every day. My friend studies under Hariprasad Chaurasia's bansuri maker whenever he visits India. I forget the makers name just now. Actually I couldn't grasp it through my friend's Italian accent.

Anyhow,
its finger tip, phalange, phalange, finger tip, phalange, phalange .....

This is why you have not seen me about for some time.

On a back street in Calcutta in 87 I came upon a small flute-
making factory. Wooden flutes of all sizes, very inexpensive.
I bought a large wooden flute and brought it back
to the states. It was solidly and simply made (to
last forever) and
it had a strong, beautiful woody sound, but it was
in no key I could ever identify or play with
other instruments.

I knew nothing about flutes at the time,
and so didn't think to buy a D flute!
I'm convinced they knew what they were
doing and had D flutes.
Sometimes even now I wake in the night screaming.

[jim stone]

What an interesting discussion! Well, on more careful reading of Grey's description of normal grip, the left thumb is supposed to provide a slight amount of pressure for stability to oppose the force of the left fingers on the tone holes. I don't recall Grey saying that one of the balance points is the chin in the normal/standard grip, so much as the lower lip. I will recheck this.

I find that sealing the tone holes in normal grip is difficult. I cannot get the same volume from the flute as I do with piper's grip (eg, with my left thumb under the flute), and sometimes all I get to sound is an airy wind - no note at all. Perhaps it is because the beveled edges on the Folk Flute's tone holes require more pressure with my type of fingers? All I know is that as soon as I switch back to piper's grip, the sound comes back.

Maybe I would do better with a polymer flute too. I seem to have to swab the insides of my mopane flute every other tune. I hear that polymer flutes don't care about moisture buildup.

If I may make a suggestion, FWIW,
patience. Give it all some time to work out.

[djm]

Do you mean covering the D? Please explain if you will. Do you mean the ring finger on the rt hand?

I mean the smallest finger on the right (lower) hand. Several references tell me to lay this down on the lower end or foot of the flute to stabilize it. I cannot reach the flute with my smallest finger. Instead, I use the ring finger of my right (lower) hand on the E hole all the time, except when it interferes with a note, of course.

djm

[jim stone]

Do you mean covering the D? Please explain if you will. Do you mean the ring finger on the rt hand?

I mean the smallest finger on the right (lower) hand. Several references tell me to lay this down on the lower end or foot of the flute to stabilize it. I cannot reach the flute with my smallest finger. Instead, I use the ring finger of my right (lower) hand on the E hole all the time, except when it interferes with a note, of course.

djm

There are six holes on the flute. I
often stabilize the flute by putting my
rt ring finger on the bottom hole, which
sounds a D when it's covered.
I did this on the whistle, too.

I used to use my pinky, however this makes it
hard to use an Eb key, so I converted.
John Skelton manages the
Eb key this way, I believe, which inspired me.

This can be combined with the sort of
grip James illustrates on his excellent and
helpful website,
the right thumb presses on the
side of the flute. This, after you get
used to it (!), enables one to play
even without the ring finger down,
that is, with all the rt hand fingers but
the thumb off the flute. This
can simplify fingering, it's quite
helpful, although I often have my
ring finger down anyhow.

Grey mentioned the right-thumb-pressing-on-
the-side option to me,
too. James Galway uses it, I believe
he said. Things you can get from a
teacher that he may not be able to
put in a book.

[Nanohedron]

The teensy bucket idea is not bad either, but it still would require venture capital to get it off the ground, in my opinion.

And no venture capital for lead weights? Then again, I suppose one could always rifle through a friend's tackle box for them! Smart man.

[talasiga]

Dear Jim,
Your response to my post seems non sequitur .....
TalaBaba

[jim stone]

Yes, mention anything Indian and
I reminisce involuntarily for
half an hour. Nobody forced you to
play the bansuri, remember.

Anyway, relevance is so bourgeois!