http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3753766602
it's a good flute for a session? or people have to prefer modern maker's Flutes to this kind of instruments?
Frank
Your Comments on this Ebay's flute
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radcliff
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- Tell us something.: in two words, Rudall & Rose. but since a minimum of 100 characters is required, I should list a number of makers I found extremely interesting… I don't even know how much are 100 characters...
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AaronMalcomb
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David Levine
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Vintage?
I don't think this would be considered a vintage flute. The date is fairly late, the keys are nickel (not silver) and the bore is cylindrical rather than conical. It is probably later than 1870.
It will be rather sharp. Since it has no tuning slide playing this flute in a session would present a problem. The stamp accounts for most of its value.
It will sound good but not have the honk that we associate with earlier conical flutes that are more suitable for traditional Irish music. For about the same (projected) price one could buy a Siccama.
My advice would be to save your pennies until an earlier conical Rudall comes along or buy a modern flute, which will play at A-440 and have a stronger sound.
It will be rather sharp. Since it has no tuning slide playing this flute in a session would present a problem. The stamp accounts for most of its value.
It will sound good but not have the honk that we associate with earlier conical flutes that are more suitable for traditional Irish music. For about the same (projected) price one could buy a Siccama.
My advice would be to save your pennies until an earlier conical Rudall comes along or buy a modern flute, which will play at A-440 and have a stronger sound.
Time will tell who has fell and who's been left behind,
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
As I have just suggested it won't be solved here, Aaron. Players have been arguing the toss on cylindrical versus conical since 1850. It is down to what you like.
I have a similar flute to the one mentioned which is illustrated on Mr McGee's excellent website. An eminent local flutemaker ( who I am told not to mention by some of the brutes on this forum ) says it plays well, but he has no time for cylindrical flutes such as mine is.I was offered this one, but am not sure that I need two !
My flute, made by Nurnberger ( the leading Rudall Carte & Co worker of his day ) in 1902 plays at modern pitch so no problem with tuning.The presently offered one will be about the same date.
At this date Rudall Carte & Co were offering a choice of conical or cylindrical, but may not have been asked for a conical one, which had gone out of favour.
The conical one recently sold by Mr Levine fetched nearly four times what I was offered this one for, so a lot of saving up might be required !
Has M. been taken away ? I hadn't noticed. Christmas has come early !
I have a similar flute to the one mentioned which is illustrated on Mr McGee's excellent website. An eminent local flutemaker ( who I am told not to mention by some of the brutes on this forum ) says it plays well, but he has no time for cylindrical flutes such as mine is.I was offered this one, but am not sure that I need two !
My flute, made by Nurnberger ( the leading Rudall Carte & Co worker of his day ) in 1902 plays at modern pitch so no problem with tuning.The presently offered one will be about the same date.
At this date Rudall Carte & Co were offering a choice of conical or cylindrical, but may not have been asked for a conical one, which had gone out of favour.
The conical one recently sold by Mr Levine fetched nearly four times what I was offered this one for, so a lot of saving up might be required !
Has M. been taken away ? I hadn't noticed. Christmas has come early !
Last edited by andrew on Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Jack Bradshaw
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The same seller has somthing a little more suitable (and cheaper)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... BID_Stores
An easy fixer upper.....
Jack
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... BID_Stores
An easy fixer upper.....
Jack
603/329-7322
"I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the
same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't;
only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ... "
"I fail to see why doing the same thing over and over and getting the
same results every time is insanity: I've almost proved it isn't;
only a few more tests now and I'm sure results will differ this time ... "
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AaronMalcomb
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Pratten
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You would be wrong that Ruddle Carte flutes with no slide are the norm, Mr. Andrew.
These flutes usally have a slide, just a french slide that Rose had improved upon, but most of them were actually with a regular slide.
And many Ruddle Carte flutes had tuning slides. Mr. David Migoya was kind enough to respond to my question about that after I read it here and asked him (and he doesn't mind having it appear hear, just so Andrew is corrected):
Are Ruddle Carte flutes normall not to have a tuning slide?
David Migoya wrote:
"No, mary. In fact, most Rudall, Carte & Co flutes were indeed with tuning slide (the simple-system varieties....I can't speak for the system models). The French slide that John Mitchell Rose perfected (read Rockstro) which I like very much, actually begins to appear at the 7000-series of flutes. I own a Rudall/Carte flute #6208 which is one of the earliest of that time and it was actually a Patent Head. All the others in the catalogue for now are with the regular tuning slide. The appearance of the french slide on the simple system flutes seems to coincide with the advent of the 8key cylindrical model."
That seems to settle that!
These flutes usally have a slide, just a french slide that Rose had improved upon, but most of them were actually with a regular slide.
And many Ruddle Carte flutes had tuning slides. Mr. David Migoya was kind enough to respond to my question about that after I read it here and asked him (and he doesn't mind having it appear hear, just so Andrew is corrected):
Are Ruddle Carte flutes normall not to have a tuning slide?
David Migoya wrote:
"No, mary. In fact, most Rudall, Carte & Co flutes were indeed with tuning slide (the simple-system varieties....I can't speak for the system models). The French slide that John Mitchell Rose perfected (read Rockstro) which I like very much, actually begins to appear at the 7000-series of flutes. I own a Rudall/Carte flute #6208 which is one of the earliest of that time and it was actually a Patent Head. All the others in the catalogue for now are with the regular tuning slide. The appearance of the french slide on the simple system flutes seems to coincide with the advent of the 8key cylindrical model."
That seems to settle that!
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Pratten
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Here is some additional information from David M regarding the no-slide Rudalls. Sorry for the misspellings.
>>David Migoya wrote:
Mary, on second look into the catalogue, the first Rudall/Carte flutes show up at about the 6600 series. My own 6208, I should have said, is a Rudall/Rose/Carte& Co .flute. My mistake.
Still, it is about 400 flutes before the "first" french-slide simple system flute shows up (6600 to 7000) in the Rudall, Carte & Co name and then regular slides until the 7100 series and by the 7200 series they french slides are in full tilt.
Seeing as the Rudall Carte name runs from 6600 through 7403 (my own), it seems more are with regular slide than with the french slide. Not many, but the majority for sure.
The first french-slide simple system Rudalls seem to show up at #7058, which is the eBay flute. I'm not sure what the bore is, but the photos make it appear as cylindrical. But then we don't see another Rudall/Carte flute without the conventional slide until #7154. Then the 7200 series of flutes are nearly all french slides up through the 7400 series.
Again, I speak only of the 8key models, not the system flutes that are of a different serial number system.
You note that Andrew says he has a flute he claims is close to the one on eBay and that they are likely the same tuning. That is not exactly right. At least from what he's made public that he owns. The database shows Andrew owns Rudall/Carte #7295, which was made approximately 1902 and #7058 was made in about 1891, or about a decade before.
I back this up by the fact that R/C #7038, which is housed at the University of East Anglia, was made on 27-Jan-1890, and R/C #7106, which resides at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, was made on 10-Aug-1892. So if I'm in error, #7058 was made in 1890 rather than '91. But certainly not close to Andrew's flute.
I also doubt the eBay flute and Andrew's were made the same way or to the same tuning specs because of the time difference, but with Rudall I suspect anything. Andrew might be right, but I doubt it on this one.
<<<
Andrew, this is what you said in this thread.
I'm glad we have Mr. Migoya's website to help decipher this!
Even if he's not on the board anymore, he's willing to help!
>>David Migoya wrote:
Mary, on second look into the catalogue, the first Rudall/Carte flutes show up at about the 6600 series. My own 6208, I should have said, is a Rudall/Rose/Carte& Co .flute. My mistake.
Still, it is about 400 flutes before the "first" french-slide simple system flute shows up (6600 to 7000) in the Rudall, Carte & Co name and then regular slides until the 7100 series and by the 7200 series they french slides are in full tilt.
Seeing as the Rudall Carte name runs from 6600 through 7403 (my own), it seems more are with regular slide than with the french slide. Not many, but the majority for sure.
The first french-slide simple system Rudalls seem to show up at #7058, which is the eBay flute. I'm not sure what the bore is, but the photos make it appear as cylindrical. But then we don't see another Rudall/Carte flute without the conventional slide until #7154. Then the 7200 series of flutes are nearly all french slides up through the 7400 series.
Again, I speak only of the 8key models, not the system flutes that are of a different serial number system.
You note that Andrew says he has a flute he claims is close to the one on eBay and that they are likely the same tuning. That is not exactly right. At least from what he's made public that he owns. The database shows Andrew owns Rudall/Carte #7295, which was made approximately 1902 and #7058 was made in about 1891, or about a decade before.
I back this up by the fact that R/C #7038, which is housed at the University of East Anglia, was made on 27-Jan-1890, and R/C #7106, which resides at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, was made on 10-Aug-1892. So if I'm in error, #7058 was made in 1890 rather than '91. But certainly not close to Andrew's flute.
I also doubt the eBay flute and Andrew's were made the same way or to the same tuning specs because of the time difference, but with Rudall I suspect anything. Andrew might be right, but I doubt it on this one.
<<<
Andrew, this is what you said in this thread.
It's not true, is it. The one on ebay was made in 1890-91.My flute, made by Nurnberger ( the leading Rudall Carte & Co worker of his day ) in 1902 plays at modern pitch so no problem with tuning.The presently offered one will be about the same date
I'm glad we have Mr. Migoya's website to help decipher this!
Even if he's not on the board anymore, he's willing to help!
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David Levine
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Doppleganger
How sad that just as we were finally breathing a bit easier with the Andrew v. Migoya issues defused, it seems we have a doppleganger Migoya. Soon I expect we shall endure a doppleganger Andrew and the vituperative exchanges will continue under different names.
With all due respect to "Pratten", I would prefer to live in ignorance rather than to be confronted with such "erudition."
With all due respect to "Pratten", I would prefer to live in ignorance rather than to be confronted with such "erudition."
Time will tell who has fell and who's been left behind,
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
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David Levine
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Bigio says....
The real number of the eBay flute in question is #7258, not #7058.
And as further FYI: Robert Bigio (of the Rudall Carte books) says that the vast majority of Rudall Carte & Co's production was in the modern style - without slide.
Honi soit qui mal y pense...
And as further FYI: Robert Bigio (of the Rudall Carte books) says that the vast majority of Rudall Carte & Co's production was in the modern style - without slide.
Honi soit qui mal y pense...
Time will tell who has fell and who's been left behind,
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.
Most likely you'll go your way, I'll go mine.