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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:23 am 
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Location: Singapore
I would like to know to play staccato triplets on the flute. They're my favourite ornaments but no one seems to cover them in their books/tutorials at all. Are they best done on the flute triple tongued or using some fingerwork ornament? Or are they done by some other inventive way?

After watching a video clip, I found that Seamus Egan doesn't do them with triple tongue like I thought, but by some kind of finger ornament. Too fast for me to see though. Definitely need help for this if I'm ever going to use detached triplets in my flute-playing life - which I very much want to!

Also, I would like to know if venting the top hole for high D on flute something very important to do in dance tunes. Jack Coen said somewhere that it's not necessary and just makes for more work. Seamus Egan on the other hand, said in his tutorial that not venting the top hole is a bad habit. He also says that venting brings benefits later on, although its not instinctive at first.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:53 pm 
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Just wanted to chime in here, I'm interested myself, I would love to play these the Seamus Eagan does, he even does these in slow songs. This is a great question, anyone out there care to tackle this one?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:30 pm 
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Location: Shanghai, China
I hear you on these. Egan is really inventive, and he seems to have made the cranning style of flute more contemporary...but clearly harks back to Malloy's pioneering.

Egan uses cool cranning or cutting for triplets more often than he tongues them, it seems. It's the gurgling effect, as some people have referred to it. Notice that he'll often, say from a G note, cut the A, then cut the B (together a triplet on G, and a cran effect), then roll back to a G or some other note--at lightening speed. He can do that on most notes, where most people cran on the low D or E exclusively.

For the B-hole venting. Some flutes get a much cleaner high D note by vnting the B-hole. Others not as much. The only problem with venting all the time is that by lifting your finger off the B, you may have to get it back there for either register.

I usually vent for a cleaner and easier note in tune, but often I'll choose not to if I want a more complex honk on the high D--creates a nice effect and use it frequently.

Try it.

G


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:33 pm 
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what you described, Greg, is what I call a "double-cut"
i use it alot myself for that "gurgle sound" and yes it needs to be done pretty fast to get the effect
usually I'll follow the double-cut with a tap or, for greater effect, double-cut, double-tap
The double-cut is also a nice touch by itself (no tap) on passing tones, such as G or F in the middle of runs and such

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:02 pm 
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Thanks for the replies Greg and David! Hrmm.. so those triplet sounding things are double cut rolls? Is there anyway you must time them to get them into a triplet sound? When I do them it just sounds like a gurgling roll, not like the way a fiddle does them.

Plus how do I do this ornament on the A note? Its very often when players do a staccato triplet on A.

Somehow I can't do a good triple tongue on flute either. Man.. this is no good.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:19 pm 
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Are these the same double cut rolls as described by L.E. McCullough in The Complete Irish Whistle Tutor?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:43 am 
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I'm confused. I'm sure I've heard the ornament before, but just can't pinpoint. Could anybody post a soundclip somewhere demonstrating this? Could help a lot. Thanks.

Tots


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:16 pm 
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Yup Craig they are


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2002 11:28 pm 
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Thanks Eldarion,

It would have been nice if he would have given some examples of double-cut rolls within a tune.


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