I'm sort of directing this question to the more experienced flute players, although I'm interested in hearing other people's experiences as well.
I currently live in an apartment, rather than a house, and I often get the urge to practice late in evening. My Copley flute produces some wonderful volume without much effort, which I love, but I'm wondering just how quietly a "Loud" flute can be played by a skilled player.
Keeping the volume low in the first octave isn't much trouble for me, but I have a difficult time keeping things really quiet in the second octave. I do concentrate lipping the smallest focused airstream I can, to produce lower volume, but I'm afraid I'm not so accurate with that on the high end.
At any rate, I'm curious just how low (in volume) one can go, with practice, and still play in tune with good balance between the octaves.
Dave M., anyone? Chris L., you've got a year or so more flute under your belt than I do, what's your experience been so far?
Cheers all,
Loren
How quietly can you play?
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Loren
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mark02
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Hi Loren-
It's quite possible to play pretty much any flute very quietly. The trick (obviously) is in not only the volume of air, but more importantly, the embrochure. You might want to try moving the "point of focus" of your embrochure further back in your lips. Some call this the "spitball" effect, as the embrochure approaches the feeling of...well, spitting out a spitball. The feel is like you are making a miniture "oooh" sound, only just with the inside of your lips. The point where the air is being focused is further away from the front of your mouth, and enables you to (eventually) play from FFF>ppp without much effort. The "eventually" plays big in here. It will feel awkward, as the lips will have a more relaxed feel overall, but it will produce more room for dynamics in the long run.
It works on both Boehm, and wooden flutes.
All the best,
Mark Sackett
It's quite possible to play pretty much any flute very quietly. The trick (obviously) is in not only the volume of air, but more importantly, the embrochure. You might want to try moving the "point of focus" of your embrochure further back in your lips. Some call this the "spitball" effect, as the embrochure approaches the feeling of...well, spitting out a spitball. The feel is like you are making a miniture "oooh" sound, only just with the inside of your lips. The point where the air is being focused is further away from the front of your mouth, and enables you to (eventually) play from FFF>ppp without much effort. The "eventually" plays big in here. It will feel awkward, as the lips will have a more relaxed feel overall, but it will produce more room for dynamics in the long run.
It works on both Boehm, and wooden flutes.
All the best,
Mark Sackett
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Loren
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Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free - Location: Loren has left the building.
Hmm, very interesting Mark,
That's a new one on me. I'll have to give it a go since i've been focusing more towards the very front of my lips......
Holy Mother of Medusa!!! That REALLY works your emouchure muscles, makes my face want to cramp. Or perhaps I'm doing something terribly wrong?
Man a few minues of that and I'm wiped out!
Loren
That's a new one on me. I'll have to give it a go since i've been focusing more towards the very front of my lips......
Holy Mother of Medusa!!! That REALLY works your emouchure muscles, makes my face want to cramp. Or perhaps I'm doing something terribly wrong?
Man a few minues of that and I'm wiped out!
Loren
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mark02
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Okay, take a break!!!
It's certainly a different embrochure, but it should be approached in a truly relaxed way. The corners of the mouth should be completely relaxed, as should the areas surrounding the lips. You'll occasionally see flute players whose faces sort of "puff" around the mouth area when this type of embrochure is used.
Just to put you at ease, I changed to this embrochure after 25 years of a more tight lipped method. I went through two months of making a lousy sound on an otherwise nice instrument, then began to make a more focused, and controlled sound. It's a huge difference, and the fact that I can play extremely quiet, when needed, makes my wife and kids happy.
Best of luck, Loren.
Kindly,
Mark
It's certainly a different embrochure, but it should be approached in a truly relaxed way. The corners of the mouth should be completely relaxed, as should the areas surrounding the lips. You'll occasionally see flute players whose faces sort of "puff" around the mouth area when this type of embrochure is used.
Just to put you at ease, I changed to this embrochure after 25 years of a more tight lipped method. I went through two months of making a lousy sound on an otherwise nice instrument, then began to make a more focused, and controlled sound. It's a huge difference, and the fact that I can play extremely quiet, when needed, makes my wife and kids happy.
Best of luck, Loren.
Kindly,
Mark
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RudallRose
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Loren:
The tight embouchure thing is fine, just don't overdo it. You can damage the muscles if you do it too long.
Frankly, as a youth, and while playing fife -- needless to say my neighbors hated it! -- I learned how to blow into the instrument without making tone, but rather a whisper. I just didn't put the effort into blowing, but into at least hearing what was a discernable note through the air stream. Anyway, the object wasn't to work my lip at all, but to learn or practice tunes without making the actual fife blast away. The exercise was for fingers not embouchure.
Anyway, it's a method I'll still use on occassion when I want to get the finger memory of the tune. Then, after that's accomplished, I'll work the lip and find what I'd like to do with the tune.
I hope this helps. I suppose I could record an .mp3 of it if need be.
The tight embouchure thing is fine, just don't overdo it. You can damage the muscles if you do it too long.
Frankly, as a youth, and while playing fife -- needless to say my neighbors hated it! -- I learned how to blow into the instrument without making tone, but rather a whisper. I just didn't put the effort into blowing, but into at least hearing what was a discernable note through the air stream. Anyway, the object wasn't to work my lip at all, but to learn or practice tunes without making the actual fife blast away. The exercise was for fingers not embouchure.
Anyway, it's a method I'll still use on occassion when I want to get the finger memory of the tune. Then, after that's accomplished, I'll work the lip and find what I'd like to do with the tune.
I hope this helps. I suppose I could record an .mp3 of it if need be.
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ErikT
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Humm. I'm not sure if I meet the qualifications for being able to post in this thread (my CV is forthcoming) but, Loren, I have three thoughts for you.
1) Get to know your neighbors. I live in an area with neighbors living very close. As you might imagine, I am blowing whistles much of the day and night. I imagined that I was unheard since the building is made of concrete. Turns out that the neighbors can hear even the quietest peep. But after talking to them, they are happy to hear "good vibrations" but just asked that I don't play before 9amm
2) If I don't want to be heard I use the technique that I think that David was descibing - really just a whisper into the flute. It sounds like a snake with an overbite or a leaking ballon, but it's audible (not just silent blowing). Blow directly into the flute missing the edge almost completly. I use it at night or when the chitlins' are asleep or when I trying to figure out how to describe doing it... You only get one octave, but it works fine for working your fingers.
3) If you really do want to have the second octave, I recommend rolling the flute in dramatically. This will flatten all of the notes, but since you're playing alone it won't matter. You may really need to open up your buccal cavity as well in order to get a decent sound, but your embouchure will remain basically the same (maybe a bit tighter).
Erik
1) Get to know your neighbors. I live in an area with neighbors living very close. As you might imagine, I am blowing whistles much of the day and night. I imagined that I was unheard since the building is made of concrete. Turns out that the neighbors can hear even the quietest peep. But after talking to them, they are happy to hear "good vibrations" but just asked that I don't play before 9amm
2) If I don't want to be heard I use the technique that I think that David was descibing - really just a whisper into the flute. It sounds like a snake with an overbite or a leaking ballon, but it's audible (not just silent blowing). Blow directly into the flute missing the edge almost completly. I use it at night or when the chitlins' are asleep or when I trying to figure out how to describe doing it... You only get one octave, but it works fine for working your fingers.
3) If you really do want to have the second octave, I recommend rolling the flute in dramatically. This will flatten all of the notes, but since you're playing alone it won't matter. You may really need to open up your buccal cavity as well in order to get a decent sound, but your embouchure will remain basically the same (maybe a bit tighter).
Erik
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LeeMarsh
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Loren,
Another tact to take is, for a few bucks, you could add soundproofing to one of the rooms you practice in. Auralex makes a <a href=http://www2.marsmusic.com/store/product ... tid=9>Home studio Pack</a>. Its available through Mars Music Stores for around $100 bucks. You can find Mars on the web and check their store locator, I noticed a number of stores in FL.
As soon as I can get one of my daughter's out of the house and on her own. I've got plans to convert a space in a bedroom. My thoughts are to put together some plywood screen to mount the foam and build a practice coral using this kit. That way, when and if we move I can take down the panels and take my music room with me.
It just a idea at this stage. It doesn't 'sound proof' 100 percent, but it appears that it will significantly reduce the volume. I hope it will be enough so that I can practice without any concern for interfering with the other folk in the house, like at 2am when I'm too wound up to sleep and would like to chill with a couple slow airs on an Overton.
Just an idea that might help you further ...
_________________
Enjoy Your Music,<br><br><b>Lee Marsh</b><br>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2001-12-07 13:49 ]</font>
Another tact to take is, for a few bucks, you could add soundproofing to one of the rooms you practice in. Auralex makes a <a href=http://www2.marsmusic.com/store/product ... tid=9>Home studio Pack</a>. Its available through Mars Music Stores for around $100 bucks. You can find Mars on the web and check their store locator, I noticed a number of stores in FL.
As soon as I can get one of my daughter's out of the house and on her own. I've got plans to convert a space in a bedroom. My thoughts are to put together some plywood screen to mount the foam and build a practice coral using this kit. That way, when and if we move I can take down the panels and take my music room with me.
It just a idea at this stage. It doesn't 'sound proof' 100 percent, but it appears that it will significantly reduce the volume. I hope it will be enough so that I can practice without any concern for interfering with the other folk in the house, like at 2am when I'm too wound up to sleep and would like to chill with a couple slow airs on an Overton.
Just an idea that might help you further ...
_________________
Enjoy Your Music,<br><br><b>Lee Marsh</b><br><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2001-12-07 13:49 ]</font>
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Loren
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Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free - Location: Loren has left the building.
Perhaps I should just move to Alaska then, no one to bother but the Moose!
I understand we have someone from this list who may be moving to Alaska before long, so I thought the following might make you laugh...or cry.....
YOU KNOW YOU'RE FROM ALASKA WHEN:
1. Your idea of a traffic jam is ten cars waiting to pass a motor home.
2. "Vacation" means going to Anchorage for the weekend.
3. You measure distance in hours.
4. You know people who have hit moose more than once.
5. Your grandparents drive through a raging snow storm at 65 miles per hour without flinching.
6. People wear camo hunting clothes and Carhartts to social events.
7. You install motion detector lights on your house and the moose keep you awake all night activating the lights
8. You think the major food groups are beer, moose meat, and sailor boy crackers.
9. You carry jumper cables and a tow strap in your truck and your wife or girlfriend knows how to use them.
10. You design your kids Halloween costume to fit over a snow suit.
11. Driving in the winter is better because the potholes are filled with snow.
12. You think sexy lingerie is tube socks and flannel pajamas.
13. You know all four seasons: almost winter, winter, still winter, and road construction
14. It takes you 3 hours to go to the store for one item even when you're in a rush because you have to stop and talk to everyone in town.
15. You actually understand these jokes and forward them to your friends from Alaska
BTW , thanks for all the suggstions on keeping it quiet gang
Loren
I understand we have someone from this list who may be moving to Alaska before long, so I thought the following might make you laugh...or cry.....
YOU KNOW YOU'RE FROM ALASKA WHEN:
1. Your idea of a traffic jam is ten cars waiting to pass a motor home.
2. "Vacation" means going to Anchorage for the weekend.
3. You measure distance in hours.
4. You know people who have hit moose more than once.
5. Your grandparents drive through a raging snow storm at 65 miles per hour without flinching.
6. People wear camo hunting clothes and Carhartts to social events.
7. You install motion detector lights on your house and the moose keep you awake all night activating the lights
8. You think the major food groups are beer, moose meat, and sailor boy crackers.
9. You carry jumper cables and a tow strap in your truck and your wife or girlfriend knows how to use them.
10. You design your kids Halloween costume to fit over a snow suit.
11. Driving in the winter is better because the potholes are filled with snow.
12. You think sexy lingerie is tube socks and flannel pajamas.
13. You know all four seasons: almost winter, winter, still winter, and road construction
14. It takes you 3 hours to go to the store for one item even when you're in a rush because you have to stop and talk to everyone in town.
15. You actually understand these jokes and forward them to your friends from Alaska
BTW , thanks for all the suggstions on keeping it quiet gang
Loren
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Loren
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- Tell us something.: You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free - Location: Loren has left the building.
Erik,
I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble
Have you ever been to Alaska before? Man, it's beautiful up there! Quite cold during those long winters though, Brrrr.....
Still, I'd love to live there for a few years. My dad moved up there a few years before he passed away, and never came back, he just loved it.
Have fun and don't forget you long johns, hee hee
I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble
Have you ever been to Alaska before? Man, it's beautiful up there! Quite cold during those long winters though, Brrrr.....
Still, I'd love to live there for a few years. My dad moved up there a few years before he passed away, and never came back, he just loved it.
Have fun and don't forget you long johns, hee hee
