Cuts on the high G

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:49 pm

I would be grateful for advice, especially from
people who have had teachers tell them how
to do this.

When you cut the second octave G, where do
you lift a finger?

I've had three accounts.

First, you lift the index finger (B)
Second, you lift the middle finger (A)
Third, you lift the ring finger (G)

I've been advised to do the first (index finger)
but the note often doesn't sound; it works on
some flutes but not others. Sounds very good
when it works. I've been trying to get this
right, thinking that if I made my cut
shallow and quick I'd get it. Very mixed
success. I'm willing to keep trying.
Of course it works fine on the first
octave G.

Second (middle finger) works, but I've been told this
isn't such a good chirp; lifting the B
cut does it better.

Third, one lady teacher tells me to lift
the G finger itself. .

I've been at this for a month and am going
a bit crazy. If you have teachers, what are
they telling you?

Please don't tell me 'there's no right way.'
Maybe there isn't, but it seems I need to believe there
is one. Humor me. I can cut every other note on
the flute. Advice welcome. Thanks,

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:28 pm

There's a right way for you to do it, and a right way for your flute, probably, but there IS no absolute right way.

I tended to play high G cuts with the index finger since that's how I did it in highland piping, but my teacher has broken me of the habit and now I use the third finger. I think that's more flute-y.

It does all depend on what you CAN do, Jim, and what sounds good on your flute. I mean, if you got 15 replies telling you to lift your index finger, and it sounded terrible on your flute, would you still do it?

Stuart

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:20 pm

To answer your question, yes, I would work until I
got it. Also I'm playing different flutes, with
different tonal features, partly because I'm playing
a G flute too because I'm accompanying
singers in the key of C.

The third finger suggestion is helpful. Will you
please say something more about why that's
more flutey? If there are words. Thanks

A soul in torment...

Eldarion · Post by **Eldarion** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:05 pm

Well I find that simple cutting isnt a very complicated, rule-bound issue. As long as it sounds like you want it to sound it hardly matters which finger you cut it with. Not exactly something you would require a lot of effort to do really.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:37 pm

Jim Stone wrote:To answer your question, yes, I would work until I
got it.

My point, though, is that some things will work better on some flutes. So you shouldn't work on something that doesn't work . . . it's just like Cnat. Most people accept that there are a lot of different fingerings for Cnat, the most prominent of which are OXXOOO and OXOXXX. If I tell you that OXOXXX is better, but your flute makes a better Cnat with OXXOOO, don't waste your time with OXOXXX. Same thing with these cuts:

XXXOOO -- XXOOOO -- XXXOOO
XXXOOO -- XOXOOO -- XXXOOO
XXXOOO -- OXXOOO -- XXXOOO

I think it's probably more common in Irish Traditional orthodoxy to play XXOOOO, but if the others work, they might be useful.

Jim Stone wrote:The third finger suggestion is helpful. Will you
please say something more about why that's
more flutey? If there are words.

I say that for two reasons. First, as I mentioned above, I think Irish-trad-steeped players tend to lift that finger (the A finger). It makes more sense to grace that way on uilleanns, I think. Second, lifting that third finger works on any instrument. I actually feel like instruments that I consider particularly well-made will sound OK with OXXOOO, XOXOOO, or (of course) XXOOOO as a gracenote. You can always bet, though, that XXOOOO will sound good, but you don't know about XOXOOO or OXXOOO. They may clunk or wheeze.

I hope that helps, Jim. Keep working on the XXOOOO, and use the other fingerings if you want to or if they work for a fast passage.

Stuart

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:42 pm

Thanks, much obliged, Jim

maracirac · Post by **maracirac** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:21 am

From one of my flute class were teacher was Dawy Maquire, excelent flute from Belfast , he told us that he always lift 3rd finger to cut G.
On the other hand from Mad4trad whistle cd with Brian Finnigan, he cut e,f#,g,a only with first finger, because on that way you got more crispy cut, because your cut note is c#.
I know that it work on some whistles and flutes and on some not, so you must try...
I cut on both way, more with my third finger, but sometimes also use my first finger.
BTW Conal O'grada cut with his second finger ( I saw that on scoiltrad demo flute lesson)
Marin

kkrell · Post by **kkrell** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:39 am

Jim,
I cut or roll in both octaves (on a Hammy) by either lifting the LH1 or LH3 finger. I tend to use LH3 most, as it's easy for rolls, seems to speak a little faster, and seems to work on all flutes.

Kevin Krell

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:34 am

There is only one possible problem with cutting the high G with your left index finger, as far as I know. That is that the cross-fingering for what is generally accepted as Cnat on whistle - OXX OOO - actually gives you a high high D (3rd 8ve) on flute. This means that, although you think you should be cutting only to the 4th above G, you're actually fingering the note a fifth above - that is, D - but not adjusting your breath requirements to suit the fingering. So, if you want to use LH index, getting the breath pressure right is what you will need to work on. I cut G with LH3; if you can get LH1 right, then go for it. The thing about cuts is that the notes you use to cut shouldn't actually be distinguishable as notes, so unless you're managing to sound squawky as you cut, you'll be fine.
Good luck - and I hope this is understandable!
Deirdre

lesl · Post by **lesl** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:32 am

I cut G with the top hand Ringman (some of you know I'm finger-number-
challenged..:). I got this watching Mike Rafferty.

Also I'm playing different flutes, with
different tonal features, partly because I'm playing
a G flute too because I'm accompanying...

What are the flutes you are using? Maybe others with the same flutes can
tell you what works the best on those maker's instruments.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:12 am

I've got a boxwood Bleazey G, a Sweethear Rosewood G,
a Sweetheart maple D, a Sweetheart
applewood C, a Seery D, and a Copley D.

The G's and the Seery are useful on the street,
the Copley is not for the street, and the
Sweetheart D is a great deal of fun to
play and practice on. Quite an expressive
flute. The Sweetheart C has a lovely,
deep sound. All of these play differently.
The Copley, the Seery, and the Sweetheart
C do best when
I cut the second octave G by lifting
my index finger. Inconsistent results
on the other flutes.

The advice that I cut the second octave G
by lifting my ringfinger is very good. Of course
it will work on all flutes. Grateful to
everybody. I've learned a lot of helpful
things on this board. Jim

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:53 am

I'm posting late on this one, but I did want to make one comment, then I'll hush.

A cut should be so fast it is no more than a "blip" of sound. The issue, for me at least, hasn't been which finger to cut with, so much as getting the cuts fast enough; then the sound actually doesn't change irregardless of which finger I cut with.

The same with rolls: you should not hear the cut and tap. You should hear the main note with what sounds like two interruptions.

--James

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:10 am

I think that's well taken. Still it seems to me
that the finger one cuts with can make a
difference to the sound. So on the bottom D,
I think it sounds better to cut the D by raising
the ringfinger of the left hand, or the middle
finger of the left hand, rather the middle
finger of the right hand.

I have the feeling, FWIW, that in flute playing
small differences add up. But I'm still feeling
my way.