Venting middle D

herbivore12 · Post by **herbivore12** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:41 am

Okay, I almost always vent this note, as do most of the people I play with. However, I played at a house session this past weekend, and a couple of very good, older fluters were there, and both of them used
xxx xxx for middle D. I talked with them, and their response was essentially, "why go through the trouble of lifting a finger you don't need to lift?"

I admit to occasionally playing middle D xxx xxx, especially in faster pieces, but in general I vent the note, and it sounds a bit cleaner to me, especially in airs. But the unvented D seemed to have an interesting, dirty-ish sound; it was in tune, as far as I could tell, but maybe had some harmonic stuff going on that's less emphatic in a vented D -- I dunno.

So, anyone know if playing an unvented D is common with Irish players (both these guys were Irish expats)? I might experiment with leaving the note unvented for those times I'm going for a rougher, dirty tone. Unless that dirty sound I'm getting is because I'm doing it *wrong*, in which case, someone please stop me.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:58 am

I never vent the D. I guess it's because of Boehm fluting for so long. It's just a technique I never tried.

Would it help to get the so-called "hard D" on the lower octave?

herbivore12 · Post by **herbivore12** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:06 am

I don't think you *can* vent bottom D. Playing with vented fingering while using the same embouchure/breath control you'd use for bottom D will probably just get you an out-of-tune middle D.

Hard D seems to be more in your embouchure and breath control. And practice.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:09 am

I'm way too new to be an expert, but I don't vent the D and neither does the flute player who leads my slow session (a much more experienced player).

Personally, it might just depend on your flute or your own preference.

Eric

spittle · Post by **spittle** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:32 am

In a recent workshop with Hans Araki, he says he prefers to vent it as, in his opinion, it 'sounds better'. I started venting because my embouchure needed (and still needs) work in the second octave, so I unconciously vent now except on quick passages where it wastes time, or rather increases complexity unnecessarily.

Actually, I've vented for so long that I now have to conciously not vent on those faster tunes.

- Ryan

pandscarr · Post by **pandscarr** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:45 am

I also always vent middle D and also middle E flat (I've a 6-keyed flute) - but interestingly, 3rd octave E flat is much better not vented... I guess it depends on the flute?

- Pamela

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:49 am

I've always thought the middle D sounds better unvented, so I generally play it that way. However, I have found that it's much easier to hit it vented, especially when playing a passage that's all in the lower octave except for a couple of D's.

As with most things in folk music, whatever you find most comfortable.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:57 am

Venting the middle D (lifting the first finger 0xx xxx) is the surest way to get a perfectly intoned D on a simple system flute. If you play baroque or classical music, it is probably a good idea and taught as the only way. That said, perfectly intoned notes are not the mainstay of Irish playing, and when I learned Irish music, the idea was that the D could be vented, or not, depending on the speed of the tune and how long you planned on holding it out for scrutiny. It isn't necessary for pitch, but it comes in stronger with the vent. The older players also ignore(d) venting the F# with the Eb key (if it still worked, or if they had one), which will also give you a brighter and more accurate F#, but prefered to treat the flute like a large transverse whistle. Whether it's necessary is a matter of taste and style.
Many "correct" ways of fingering and gaining perfect intonation are ignored or even rejected for speed and/or color in folk music. A good example of this is the B-C-D triplet in the key of, say, G, which should require, if you are being attentive to key signatures, the C to be a natural. But, at speed, it is often played B-C#-D, and it works suitably well even surrounded by otherwise natural Cs. Usually, you can't even hear the omission, and, if you manage to notice, it can be argued that it sounds just fine, adding that odd element that keeps things authentically "Irish".
As I mentioned on another thread, modern Irish flutes are usually designed to play in-tune with whistle fingerings. Given this, there is not much of a difference, tonally, between the vented middle D and the unvented. On an older flute, there is usually more so, but whether the tonal difference bothers you or not is a different story, not unlike the multitude of C natural fingering possibilities, including the keyed one, which trad players often don't use because it's too in tune and sounds wrong in context.
Gordon

herbivore12 · Post by **herbivore12** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:09 pm

Good stuff, Gordon. As I was thinking more about this today, I found myself wondering if venting was more important in older flutes not made specifically for Irish trad music, since nearly all the makers now seem to have "tweaked" designs based (in part) on older flutes in order to bring them into accord with modern tuning (and ears) and make them especially suitable for trad. It seems that may indeed be the case.

I almost always vent middle D in slow pieces, usually vent it otherwise, and go with the unvented fingering in faster tunes depending on context (sometimes oxx xxx is convenient, sometimes less so). It's bit stronger and more pure on my McGee when vented, but in tune either way, though there's still maybe some added harmonic effect in the unvented fingering. Don't know if that effect is noticeable to the listener, though, or just to me, with my ears right there near the thing.

I'll play around. No one ever called me on sometimes playing middle D unvented in session, so I wasn't sure if I was getting away with something, or what.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:27 pm

Something I forgot is, if you're into finger vibrato, vibrating on the B hole works very well for middle or high D's. On most of my flutes and whistles, it makes a very nice effect -- it doesn't change the pitch, only the timbre.

msheldon · Post by **msheldon** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:32 pm

In general, I find the middle D to be cleaner, more in-tune, louder, and easier to hit if I vent it. The comment about the Boehm flute interested me, since I vent middle D on the Boehm also...

For Eb on my wooden flutes (one is a 1-key, the other a 6-key), it will work either way, though it seems a little clearer unvented.

mrosenlof · Post by **mrosenlof** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:41 pm

Yes, you should lift your left index finger for the middle D (and Eb) on a Bohm flute. I too found that original comment interesting. You can, however, just overblow the low octave fingering and get those notes.

The reason, as I understand it, is that opening the first hole breaks up the tendency to resonate at the lower frequency associated with that fingering. Similar reason that 0xx 000 often works well for the 3rd D, the open first hole breaks up the resonance that would give the 2nd octave G with that hole closed.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:42 pm

I usually vent it unless I want a special effect.

By the way, there are times when a partially vented middle D is a nice effect on a longer note in songs or airs, or even changing slowly from vented to unvented (or the other way around) while holding the note in an air.

On Boehm-system flute, you do need to vent the middle D so that it will be "in voice" and have the same timbre as its surrounding notes.

--James

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:55 pm

The middle D, vented, is one of the most beautiful
notes on the flute--so I play it vented unless
I'm moving merrily along. Yes, one can get
finger tremelo just as Chas says

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:08 pm

mrosenlof wrote:The reason, as I understand it, is that opening the first hole breaks up the tendency to resonate at the lower frequency associated with that fingering. Similar reason that 0xx 000 often works well for the 3rd D, the open first hole breaks up the resonance that would give the 2nd octave G with that hole closed.

The first finger hole hapens to be in the nodal position for the first harmonic for the D note. So opening it kills that harmonic and lets all the energy go into the second harmonic, one octave higher.

This is convenient, and gives you a nicer and truer D. What do we do for the other notes in the second octave? Nothing, because their nodal points would be further up the tube, and there are no convenient holes there. We just compensate with our embochure, and take it like a man/woman, without complaining too much.

If you play on the third octave, you may notice that the fingerings correspond to notes that will give you the note you want as second harmonic (e.g.: G for the high D, A for the high E, etc), with some fingers lifted to kill the second harmonic, and sometimes other fingers added to flatten the note. Once you realize this, the 3rd octave fingers don't look so magical anymore.