any thoughts on wooden boehms

michaelS · Post by **michaelS** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:52 pm

Hi eveyone, I have concluded, after much experementaton, that I need to stick with the boehm for most of the music I play ( besides the ITM) mainly due to the chromatic and range demands. I am thinking about a Yamaha yfl-874WH. Does anyone have any experience with this flute? Does anyone have any comments to make on wooden boehms in general. I am also considering the wooden headjoint option, any comments on that?
thanks
Michael

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:58 am

A wooden head joint will change your tone, but won't give you a conical flute, which you've decided you can't use anyway. So it's a definite (and cheaper) option than going with a fully wooden modern flute.
A wooden Boehm will also not sound like a wooden conical, but will give you a different tone, certainly, than a silver, but I'd try that particular flute you mentioned before I assume anything -- some wooden Boehms sound enough like their silver counterparts not to make the change over worth it, as the embouchure cut and other options are still basically a modern design. I would say go for a headjoint designed with a more 'trad' embouchure, and you might find a nice compromise.
Another option might be finding a 19th century Boehm flute, which is more akin to a conical in embouchure design. The only drawback there is that more often than not, you will have a flute that plays best at a slightly high pitch - 445 or up. Very hard to find an antique Boehm system that's truly in 440 pitch.
Gordon

Rae · Post by **Rae** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:02 am

If I were you, I’d go to a Boehm flute forum and ask that question as well – they might have more information on what brands are good, which to avoid, etc. If you want, I’ll tell you the ones I frequent.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:10 am

Jessie K. can be helpful as well, although I believe she's out of town for another week or so. I know she has experience with a several wooden Bohems (Powell, Abell, Yamaha, etc.) as well as a handful of wooden headjoints. Try sending her and email and I bet she'll be happy to answer any questions when she returns.

Loren

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:18 am

My advice is, if you already have a Boehm flute, try a wooden headjoint. It will get you the wooden sound for a fraction of the price. Mark Hoza (http://www.woodenflutemaker.com) makes excellent headjoints (i have one), and he's been selling some of his "seconds" on eBay and on his site for a very good price. He calls them seconds because they have some visual imperfection, he says they sound just fine, and i believe him.

PM me if you want more details.

g

P.S.: What they say about it being a good sound but not exactly the same "Irish" sound you get from a conical flute is true. But it can still be a gorgeous sound, just different.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:36 am

glauber wrote: P.S.: What they say about it being a good sound but not exactly the same "Irish" sound you get from a conical flute is true. But it can still be a gorgeous sound, just different.

Absolutely.
Gordon

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:53 am

glauber wrote:My advice is, if you already have a Boehm flute, try a wooden headjoint. It will get you the wooden sound for a fraction of the price.

Well, not quite: Slapping a Hoza headjoint on metal Boehm will not get you the sound of a full wooden Powell, Abell, or the like - it's just not gonna happen.

Loren

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:18 am

Loren wrote:
glauber wrote:My advice is, if you already have a Boehm flute, try a wooden headjoint. It will get you the wooden sound for a fraction of the price.
Well, not quite: Slapping a Hoza headjoint on metal Boehm will not get you the sound of a full wooden Powell, Abell, or the like - it's just not gonna happen.

Yes, it will probably end up sounding much better!

... or not, depending on your definition of better, and what you're looking for in a flute's sound, how much you can pay, etc.

IMHO, many of the modern wooden Boehms sound too much like a silver flute. This is not bad per se, but a handmade headjoint can give you a more radical change, if that's what you're looking for. A high-end maker like Mark can work with you to get the sound you're looking for, while with a manufactured flute, you get what they think is best. I'm singling out Mark Hoza because he's the one i know, but there are other headjoint makers out there, of course. Abell is another one. For piccolos, i recommend Eldred Spell.

Sound is a very personal thing, and we can discuss here until our fingers fall off, but in the end each one of us will form our own opinion.

g

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:17 am

Are you saying, G, that you think something like an Abell (wooden Boehm with a wooden headjoint) sounds too much like a silver flute, but that a wooden headjoint (like a Hoza) on a silver flute sounds less like a silver flute?

That sounds strange!

I'm all open to new thoughts, but I just can't see how headjoint + silver body sounds MORE different than headjoint+body.

S

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:20 am

You know Glauber Sturart, he just likes to be contrary

Loren

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:17 pm

No, i don't like to be contrary. Being contrary is the last thing in my mind. I really have a lot more important things to do. So let me start by saying that you're right and i'm wrong, if this will keep the peace.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program for those who're interested:

I can't comment on Abell, since i have never played one. The pictures on his Web site are gorgeous and i'm sure he's a first-rate maker.

What i was saying is that if you buy a handmade headjoint, especially from somebody who's used to the "Irish flute" market, you may get a more radical change than by buying a whole Yamaha wooden flute. Plus when working with a maker, you can both work together to get the sound that you want. And, you may even save some money. (Of course this assumes that you have a flute body that you like and that's halfway decent.)

This sounds funny, but at least in my experience, 90% of the flute's sound comes from the headjoint, especially from the way the embochure and chimney are cut. That's why you get a darker sound with a wooden headjoint, because it's going typically to have a higher chimney than a silver flute's. You can cut a wooden headjoint so it will sound much like a siver one. And you can cut a silver headjoint so it will sound almost as dark as a wooden one.

The wooden flutes made by Yahama, etc, cater to people who want to play in orchestras. They want the stronger sound of wood, but they don't want to stick out too much from their colleagues.

My Boehm flute (Myiazawa + Hoza head) sounds way darker than my Irish flute (Eamonn Cotter, Pratten-ish). The thing that really surprised me is that the wooden head is way louder than the metal head that came with the flute. I think this is a common experience. My Myiazawa has a very sweet sound, so i wanted to get a wooden head that would give me maximum contrast, and i found something that has a heavy and complex sound, or as my wife says, "sounds like an oboe".

Rumour is (from a letter he wrote, i think) that by the end of his life, Herr Boehm was playing a metal flute with wooden head.

By any means, if you can, try out as many flutes as you can (that's what festivals and conferences are for), buy whatever fits your style and the vision you have for your sound. Sandy Drelinger, for example, will let you try out dozens of different heads (metal and wood) with your flute, and let you choose the one that works best for you. One of the best Boehm flute players i know plays a beat up French-made silver-plated student-grade flute. More power to him!

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:50 pm

I certainly agree with Glauber that (the right) wooden headjoint on a metal flute will sound very different than an all metal flute, and I've head a couple of these combos in sessions that sounded quite good, so I'm not trying to discourage that approach at all.

Loren

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:22 pm

the abell flute sounds wooden and is beautiful

Dana · Post by **Dana** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:14 pm

I sold an Abell headjoint to a friend of mine, which she plays on a silver Boehm-style flute. It did wonderful things to the sound of that flute. My current wood Boehm is a modern Powell (Verne Q). The headjoint is a modern cut, which works well for orchestral playing, although I find that the flute has to be played extremely athletically. This works wonderfully for lots of stuff, but for orchestral pit work with non-stop playing, it can be tremendously tiring.

Even though the flute is not conical, and has a modern headjoint cut, there is a remarkable difference between my wood flute and my silver flute. The wood flute is darker, richer and warmer, and blends wonderfully with other woodwind instruments.

Regarding the Yamaha wood flute: I haven't tried one, but I've been told by oboists that Yamaho oboes are very prone to cracking. I've played a Hammig wood flute, which was pretty nice, and much less expensive than an Abell or a Powell.

A Boehm wood flute will certainly sound much different than an Irish flute, although it's amazing how "Irish" you can make it sound via embouchure adjustments. The primary source of the flute sound is within your own head. The flute is the tool.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:23 pm

I think that what Glauber is also saying is that a Boehm-system flute made from wood, but directed at a modern classical/jazz professional player (and, really, who else will spend 10k and up on a flute?), will sound more like a modern classical player will want it to; no one that spends years and years learning an embouchure approach wants to have a change thrust upon them (unless, of course, that is their ambition, to learn trad or whatever -- but then most will also move to a conical for that, anyway). So, in the end, while wood has tonal qualities that many people, starting with us, prefer over silver, gold or whatever other metal or plastic, the high-end hand-made wooden Boehm-system flutes are generally made to play much more like their silver counterparts than an ITM player will probably want. As Glauber said, the embouchure cut and head bore dimensions is the most crucial part of tone, anyway. While I think makers like Abel do make "traditional cut" heads, the bulk of their flutes are sold to fairly serious modern-flute players who expect a responsiveness they are somewhat used to.
Why is it, besides aesthetics, that most of us don't prefer the "modern cut" heads that a few quite good makers offer (Terry, Noy, etc.) -- not because it doesn't work, but because they feel, sound and play differently than a trad head. Not quite a traditional sound.
So, it seems to me, and to Glauber and his Hoza heads, that the best compromise to a silver flute becoming more "Irish-like" is to put a head designed to deliver a more Irish-flute-like embouchure on the thing. While none of these fixes, wooden Boehm or wooden head, will make a cylindrical modern flute sound exactly like a Rudall or Pratten conical, they will, if made well, sound really good in any case. Since sounding good is the bottom line, those that don't want to change from the flexibility of a Boehm system but want a heavier, woody-toned sound are best served by a wooden head on their trusted Boehms.
Sorry, Glauber, if this is not exactly what you had in mind.
Gordon