metal lined heads

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:10 pm

I know that unlined heads tend to sound different
from lined ones, that the former are described
as more 'woody.' But I wonder if something more
can be said--are the lined ones louder?
I would guess so. But also do they have
a more elegant or subtle tone?

Here I go again asking questions that
transcend language, etc. Forgive me,
I really need to know.

You know the sound of the best
flutes by the best makers--how much
of that is due to a lined head? Best

illuminatus99 · Post by **illuminatus99** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:48 pm

I woudl say the real disadvantage of a lined head is that metal and wood expand and contract at different rates, sometimes with disasterous effects.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:18 pm

Look at me, Jim! Hijacking another of your threads!

Don't be upset.

First, let me say that I think headjoint lining really does affect the sound. I think that lined headjoints tend to be brighter and somewhat more responsive than comparable unlined ones. There are some people . . . Heaven help me for bringing this up . . . that champion certain metals over others. I've never compared; my lined headjoints are all silver. I have one unlined headjoint whose design is so radically different than the unlined ones that I don't know how much is the lining and how much is the rest of the package.

As for the metal and wood contracting at different rates . . . hmm. I wonder about this one. I know Terry McGee and others developed their unlined headjoints and wacky slides for tht reason, but I have seen cracked unlined headjoints too. I think it all depends on how well-seasoned the timber was, and how well-cared-for the timber is, particularly in that first year.

If you think about it, the metal lining might act as a heat sink and could even slow the rate of change of the headjoint (by distributing heat evenly, blah blah).

So, just so you won't be scared of me any more, I'll say that lined headjoints might tend to be brighter and louder, possibly more responsive, than unlined. They're also considerably heavier, but unless you're talking about patent heads (which you're not), it doesn't matter.

Stuart

Let the flames begin!

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:25 pm

You're crazy Stuart, lined or unlined makes no difference in sound at all!!!!

Hee hee, I couldn't resist.

Seriously, I'm staying out of this one ( I imagine Jim doesn't much value for my thoughts anyway), except to say that I basically agree with Stuart here: Lined usually equals, louder, brighter and more responsive. I like the sound of both lined and unlined flutes, well the good ones anyway

Loren

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:27 pm

I don't think there is as much deference as you expect. I think the qualities such as bright, dark ....Have much more to do with the embouchure cut, and the depth of the chimney. I agree that a wooden lined head is like a time bomb.
Terry's flutes are very bright and big sound, and the heads are not lined, while say the M&E is plastic, and lined head, yet the tone is deep and dark.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:45 pm

And Eilam weighs in on the side of material NOT mattering as much as design! Thanks EILAM!

Oh, wait; wrong thread.

Stuart

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:40 pm

the truth is that I have always valued Loren's
views on flutes and other things, and have
profitted from them on several occasions.
I am not merely being nice.

Thanks to all, this is what I wanted to know.
I've heard the stuff about cracked wood, too,
of course. Best

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:13 pm

And Eilam weighs in on the side of material NOT mattering as much as design! Thanks EILAM!

Oh, wait; wrong thread.

Stuart
Ok, your right, obviously the same design, one lined and one unlined can't sound the same, the difference is much more severe than say two different types of wood, and I agree that the difference would be in response and brightness.
However Stuart, I'm not going to have you bullying me to take back my words, they're
right, and you know it! now, say it! "eilam's right, and I'm wrong" say it, Stuart! :roll: :roll: :roll:

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:04 am

eilam wrote:Stuart Ok, your right . . . I agree . . . Stuart, . . . "eilam's . . . wrong"

I edited out the extra bits, for those of you who found Eilam's post a little on the verbose side. This is what Eilam was saying.

Stuart

Ro3b · Post by **Ro3b** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:40 am

There are some people . . . Heaven help me for bringing this up . . . that champion certain metals over others.

FWIW, during a merry afternoon of comparing headjoints in Patrick Olwell's shop (well, how do YOU spend your days off?) I found nickel silver-lined headjoints to have a slightly harder, edgier tone than sterling silver, which bears out what Patrick says about them. He's made a couple of cocus flutes with nickel-silver linings that will shatter windows.

Whistlin'Dixie · Post by **Whistlin'Dixie** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:05 am

That's a dream weekend, I'm sure!

Mary